Mr. Magazine

Publishing During A Pandemic (18)

“It’s the emotions of the publishers and editors out there; it was their emotions that I always tried to convey in the Newsletter. I never liked to use the word “it” for a magazine, it was always the editor, publisher or a top executive of the magazine that I would talk to that was representing the magazine. It was always their emotions that I tried to convey. To me, that made it very personal and not only to me, but also to the readers and really reflected on what they did.” … Steve Cohn

 “One thing I used to write about all the time was advertising is finite, but media is infinite. And that’s always been a challenge for publishers. And it’s a deeper challenge now. Publishers and editors who connect with readers, who give them content that they want to read right away, are the ones who will succeed. I always worried about that myself. I wanted to write what people wanted to read because I didn’t want to waste their time. That was a real concern of mine.” … Steve Cohn

If you are in the magazine and magazine media world, the name Steve Cohn has to conjure up good memories of a journalist who edited the leading magazine media newsletter, min: media industry newsletter, for 30 years, and edited it well, very well indeed.  He is, in fact, the only journalist I have never heard anyone say a single negative word about.  He took his job seriously and acted as any good journalist would, he reported the facts and documented the magazine media world with numbers and figures.  His lunches with the “who’s who” in the business were a fixture of his reporting and people awaited the arrival of the newsletter every Monday morning nonstop.

I spoke with Steve recently to chat about his views on the world of magazines and magazine media, as someone who watched and reported on the industry for years. He was there after the attacks of September 11, 2001, and he was there during the economic crisis of 2008/09.  I asked his opinion  of the current magazine media situation as a part of my series of Publishing During A Pandemic.  His stroll through memory lane sheds a lot of highlights on an industry that is determined to be resilient and in search of a new business model after a century of success with an ad-driven one.

Please join me as Steve and I take a stroll down magazine media memory lane and stay tuned for more in the series of Publishing During  A Pandemic.

But first the sound-bites:

On people saying he is an expert at putting a positive spin on things: I was being honest, I put a positive spin because I didn’t just write things willy-nilly. Obviously as a good journalist, I talked to them and got their answers to my questions. If they said something positive, I would record that. I also questioned it, and I would record that too. I was being fair, I wasn’t being a Pollyanna.

On what he thinks the role of magazines are today in these uncertain times: If you look at The New Yorker, for example, it’s just as influential as it’s always been. I think magazines have to be out there and they have to be a voice. It’s far more challenging with the Covid-19 outbreak; it’s probably more challenging than it’s ever been before. But they have to be out there because people depend on them.

On a quote from his former boss, the late Bill Barlow– Magazines are a people business: Definitely, because it’s the emotions. It’s the emotions of the publishers and editors out there; it was their emotions that I always tried to convey in the Newsletter. I never liked to use the word “it” for a magazine, it was always the editor, publisher or a top executive of the magazine that I would talk to that was representing the magazine. It was always their emotions that I tried to convey.

On what he thinks makes magazines relevant in this day and age: It hasn’t changed in this day and age from past days and ages; it’s connecting, establishing relationships with the readers. Whatever sector you’re in, be it fashion, sports, news; be it science or lifestyle, there has to be a one-to-one connection with the reader. I think PEOPLE magazine does that brilliantly, that’s why they’re so strong.

On making people need a magazine rather than just wanting one: I think in order to change a want to a need, you have to put the content out there that people really want. Home improvement magazines do that; if you need to fix your house in some way, you buy The Family Handyman. The cover lines attract you and that’s why they’re so important, especially on newsstand, because they can hook the reader. Then you can change that want to a need.

On what advice he would give the magazine industry today about moving forward: It might seem Pollyannaish, so I apologize, but I’d say just do the best job you can and put out the best content you can. In a correct society, that would bring results. It doesn’t always do that, but just be as professional as you can. That’s easier said than done sometimes, I also know that too, especially with what’s going on today with Covid-19. It has to be unbelievably challenging to publishers. Obviously, I think digital editions’ readerships are probably going up with most everyone at home.

On the highlight of his long career: The highlight of my career was the way MIN responded after the 9/11 attack. It was a very difficult time, especially in New York, as it is today. And there was a lot of media out there. And with the travel magazines, people were afraid to travel, to fly, as they are today, but for different reasons. I decided, instead of all the publishers asking me what I was going to do, I decided to call an editor, in this case Nancy Novogrod, she was the editor of Travel + Leisure.

On what he is doing these days: I live in White Plains, New York and I write a lot of stuff gratis for the library. I’ve been doing that for about three or four years. I do it to keep me busy and test my writing skills to some degree. I’ve also written articles for Folio. I did one on David Carey when he retired from Hearst, but now he’s back.

On whether he has considered writing a memoir or a book about his life: I would say to some degree, I have been thinking about it for a while. People will ask me why I don’t write a book about this or that. There are two things I’ve thought about: number one, if I wrote a book it wouldn’t have a lot of people who would buy it, maybe the Square, which is 14th Street, and Columbus Circle, which is 59th Street, the rest of the country, with some exceptions, maybe Oxford, Miss. (Laughs), probably wouldn’t buy it. So, I haven’t taken it really very seriously, and I still don’t.

On what kept him up at night when he was editor of MIN: What kept me up at night then was worrying about the issue, mostly Sunday nights, just worrying about the issue closing.

And now  the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Steve Cohn, former editor, Media Industry Newsletter (MIN).

Samir Husni: People have said that you’re an expert at putting a positive spin on things, no matter how bad they look.

Steve Cohn: I was being honest, I put a positive spin because I didn’t just write things willy-nilly. Obviously as a good journalist, I talked to them and got their answers to my questions. If they said something positive, I would record that. I also questioned it, and I would record that too. I was being fair, I wasn’t being a Pollyanna. And being fair was really important to me, because the health of MIN (Media Industry Newsletter) depended on the health of the industry, the magazine industry. To just knock everybody didn’t do me any good, unless there was justification for it.

So, a positive spin? Yes, you’re correct to a degree. I was an honest journalist. If the magazine was in trouble I would report on it. If their ad pages were down at the time, that was a fact. I based on facts not on rumors. I tried to be honest. That’s something I did throughout my career.

And I think it worked, because obviously, I built a trust with many of the people I talked to. And that was important because there’s a natural adversarial relationship between a journalist and his/her subject. You deal with these people day-to-day and their wellbeing made my wellbeing. It’s a symbiotic relationship.

Samir Husni: In your opinion, as a 30+ year journalist and as editor of one of the most influential media newsletters that we’ve had, what is the role of magazines today in the midst of this doom and gloom that we’re passing through now?

Steve Cohn: If you look at The New Yorker, for example, it’s just as influential as it’s always been. I think magazines have to be out there and they have to be a voice. It’s far more challenging with the Covid-19 outbreak; it’s probably more challenging than it’s ever been before. But they have to be out there because people depend on them.

I think in the short-term, they will be more dependent on their websites, because single copies may be hard to buy with all the stores closed, at least limited anyway. So, the websites are important. And also magazines offer reassurance and service, and that’s something unique.

Today, in 2020, to some degree it’s like what happened after September 11, to some degree. There was a lot of gloom and doom back then, especially for the travel magazines. But they pulled through and hopefully they will again. I think the challenge is must greater because we don’t know when this is going to end. And we don’t know if the Coronavirus is going to come back.

Samir Husni: One of my favorite quotes is one that you told me your former boss, the late Bill Barlow said, “Magazines are a people business.”

Steve Cohn: Definitely, because it’s the emotions. It’s the emotions of the publishers and editors out there; it was their emotions that I always tried to convey in the Newsletter. I never liked to use the word “it” for a magazine, it was always the editor, publisher or a top executive of the magazine that I would talk to that was representing the magazine. It was always their emotions that I tried to convey. To me, that made it very personal and not only to me, but also to the readers and really reflected on what they did.

One of my favorite stories – in 2003 I had lunch with David Remnick, editor of The New Yorker, and we talked for a bit. He’s a brilliant guy who’s still there. And I asked him how long he thought he was going to be at The New Yorker, and he answered, “Until my knees creak.” And I put that in the Newsletter because it was an emotion. And he’s still there, to his credit. It was a way to catch a little of the emotion behind the person and the personality, more than just blah, blah, blah.

I see a lot of bland reporting out there, and certainly I’ve also done my share, but I think you have to try and make things emotional so you can connect with your readers, especially if you have a newsletter like MIN, which is sort of a one-to-one relationship with the audience. That was something I believed in. Bill Barlow certainly did too, and he influenced me. He passed away in 1994, but he was the owner and the guy who hired me.

He was also the guy who introduced me to you too, I don’t think he knew you, but he had heard about somebody at Meredith, and I guess it was Jim Autry at the time, who had hired someone who had a connection with you, and he told me about you. And I called you – it was August 1986, and that’s how we met.

Ironically, Bill also gave me the idea in December to do a launch review. And in those days there was no Internet, so I had to go to the New York Library and get back issues of Folio. I used to do a launch roundup every month. I did that for about a year or two and then I got wiser. (Laughs) I started leaving that to you. But Bill was a big influence. He was a guy who lived on the Upper Eastside, very wealthy. MIN Newsletter launched in 1947 and he bought it in the mid-‘70s as a hobby and that’s sort of how he treated it. But he needed someone to do the work, the nitty-gritty, and that’s why I was hired in 1986.

Samir Husni: What do you think makes magazines relevant, necessary and sufficient in this day and age?

Steve Cohn: It hasn’t changed in this day and age from past days and ages; it’s connecting, establishing relationships with the readers. Whatever sector you’re in, be it fashion, sports, news; be it science or lifestyle, there has to be a one-to-one connection with the reader. I think PEOPLE magazine does that brilliantly, that’s why they’re so strong. I think Vogue and Anna Wintour has done that brilliantly; to make the audience feel like a part of the business and not strangers. I think that’s very important. It always has been and it always will be. Those are the magazines that are the most successful.

When they publish an article that strikes a chord and gets a lot of attention and that the reader really wants to read, and not just put away for a rainy day, those are the magazines that are successful and they will be and will continue to be.

Samir Husni: And can you make people need a magazine, instead of just wanting one? Can you change that want to a need?

Steve Cohn: I think in order to change a want to a need, you have to put the content out there that people really want. Home improvement magazines do that; if you need to fix your house in some way, you buy The Family Handyman. The cover lines attract you and that’s why they’re so important, especially on newsstand, because they can hook the reader. Then you can change that want to a need. That can be a very difficult challenge, especially in 2020 with so much media out there.

One thing I used to write about all the time was advertising is finite, but media is infinite. And that’s always been a challenge for publishers. And it’s a deeper challenge now. Publishers and editors who connect with readers, who give them content that they want to read right away, are the ones who will succeed. I always worried about that myself. I wanted to write what people wanted to read because I didn’t want to waste their time. That was a real concern of mine.

If there was big news early in the week and I came out on a Friday with it, I couldn’t just write the same thing that was already out there a thousand times, I had to put my own spin to it. I needed to tell them something they didn’t know. And that was a way of connecting with the readers. They would see something they hadn’t seen before and they wanted to read it. That was the key to our success for many years, that and the Box Scores and our other features.

I always put the weekly Box Scores on an odd page, either number 3 or 5. And I would always go directly to page three to see how I was doing, New York Magazine, versus my competition. I never forgot that. And I put a lot of emphasis on their accuracy and the monthly Box Scores accuracy, just making sure we had all the participants. And that was a big challenge for me every week. I didn’t do the work personally, but I was responsible for it. And that was really paramount to our success, because Ad Week and everybody published words, but only we had the numbers.

After 9/11, for example, with the Box Scores, everything dropped precipitously after the attack, it wasn’t the fault of the economy, it was the fault of Osama Bin Laden. I didn’t use those words, but it was the terrorist attacks that made everything tank from the fall of 2001 to the fall of 2002. So I tried to be sensitive to that and write it carefully, and it was the right thing to do.

Samir Husni: If you were to reach out to the magazine industry today, the CEOs, publishers and editors; if they were to ask your advice, based upon your experience, about what they should do to move forward, what would you tell them?

Steve Cohn: It might seem Pollyannaish, so I apologize, but I’d say just do the best job you can and put out the best content you can. In a correct society, that would bring results. It doesn’t always do that, but just be as professional as you can. That’s easier said than done sometimes, I also know that too, especially with what’s going on today with Covid-19. It has to be unbelievably challenging to publishers. Obviously, I think digital editions’ readerships are probably going up with most everyone at home.

Samir Husni: Can you tell me the highlight of your long career?

Steve Cohn: The highlight of my career was the way MIN responded after the 9/11 attack. It was a very difficult time, especially in New York, as it is today. And there was a lot of media out there. And with the travel magazines, people were afraid to travel, to fly, as they are today, but for different reasons. I decided, instead of all the publishers asking me what I was going to do, I decided to call an editor, in this case Nancy Novogrod, she was the editor of Travel + Leisure.

It was about 10 days after 9/11 and I asked her what she was going to do. She said she was closing the November issue and the editor’s note that she had planned to write, she changed it to the importance of travel and how travel was needed, even in the difficult times after 9/11. And I asked her to fax it to me, email was relatively new back then. So she faxed it to me. I put it in the Newsletter and over the next three months, other editors began sending these things to me. I didn’t even request them. I received tons of them. And I ran a page of them from September through Thanksgiving. Maybe a little beyond. And that was my proudest moment.

I got editors to share their thoughts about the major tragedy of that time and how they were persevering. And if I was editor of MIN today, I’d probably try and do the same thing, although it would be more difficult because the tragedy is ongoing.

My favorite story, David Zinczenko, who at that time was in his first or second year as editor of Men’s Health, told me in those days he lived near the World Trade Center and he ran past it very early on the morning of 9/11 before the attacks came. And then he went back to his apartment. Later, he met a police officer who had found someone’s keys or something like that, and he asked David if he knew whose they were and David said no. Afterward, he wondered whether that officer had run down to the World Trade Center after the attack. He asked that question in his editor’s letter. It turned out the officer was okay. But that struck a chord with me. And hopefully with the readers. Just another thing in my career that I’ll never forget.

Samir Husni: What are you doing these days? Enjoying retirement, reading a lot of magazines?

Steve Cohn: I live in White Plains, New York and I write a lot of stuff gratis for the library. I’ve been doing that for about three or four years. I do it to keep me busy and test my writing skills to some degree. I’ve also written articles for Folio. I did one on David Carey when he retired from Hearst, but now he’s back. And I did one on Glenda Bailey about a year ago when she was then editor of Harper’s Bazaar, when she was about the sole survivor left among editors, except for Anna Wintour and David Remnick.

If you ever talk to her she sounds very Cockney, very East End London, sort of like Eliza Doolittle before My Fair Lady. And she was put down because of that when she was editor of Bazaar, yet she succeeded. It’s a wonderful story. I have done things like that for Folio, all gratis, for free. I tried to do the Barbara Smith story, but they said they were “too busy” for it, and it was suggested that I send it to you, which I did and thank you for publishing it.

I try to keep busy and really observe the industry from afar, rather than up close. It concerns me and its wellbeing concerns me. I read Ad Age, Adweek, The New York Post, and Mr. Magazine™ and Women’s World Daily, just to see what’s going on. Most of the names I worked with, other than a few, are no longer there anymore. I left MIN in July 2016 and I think easily the majority of the editors and publishers I worked with are gone.

It’s a difficult time for the industry and who knows where it’ll be a year from now or five years with this virus. That’s what is so scary. Your health is paramount. So you social distance and stay indoors and hope for the best. If I were editor of MIN today and not being able to see people, that would be a huge detriment to my reporting. It would be so much harder. Meeting people was one of the most enjoyable parts of my job.

Samir Husni: Are we going to see a memoir or a book from your long career in journalism?

Steve Cohn: I would say to some degree, I have been thinking about it for a while. People will ask me why I don’t write a book about this or that. There are two things I’ve thought about: number one, if I wrote a book it wouldn’t have a lot of people who would buy it, maybe the Square, which is 14^th Street, and Columbus Circle, which is 59^th Street, the rest of the country, with some exceptions, maybe Oxford, Miss. (Laughs), probably wouldn’t buy it. So, I haven’t taken it really very seriously, and I still don’t. I like to reminisce a lot and that’s why I was happy to do this interview. And I thank you for that.

Samir Husni: What kept you up at night when you were editor of MIN?

Steve Cohn: What kept me up at night then was worrying about the issue, mostly Sunday nights, just worrying about the issue closing. I used to use an old expression, if you’ve watched the movie “The Godfather,” it was X-rated, but James Caan’s character, Sonny Corleone, in one scene mentioned that he didn’t want his brother, Michael, to come out of the toilet with just his private part in his hand. I always thought about that, and “when the fat lady sings,” I had to be ready. I didn’t want to be like Michael Corleone or something, I wanted to be prepared. So, that was a motivator for me, believe it or not. A line from “The Godfather”…(Laughs)

It was a motivator for me to get the issue out. I was the editor, so the buck stopped with me. It was my responsibility. In 30 years, I broke my elbow once, so I missed maybe five closings at the most, when my kids were born, something like that. Otherwise, I was there every Friday. It was a challenging job, a demanding job, but it was a fun job.

Samir Husni: Thank you.

Publishing During A Pandemic (17)

 “Magazines have always been an effective form of entertainment – a chance to dive into a tactile, sensory experience that is immersive and can take your mind off the stresses of the day. How much do we all need that right now? To step back and read about inspiring home design or the noble undertakings of our alumni peers, or just to look through a curated photo gallery? When your favorite magazine comes right to you at your doorstep and you can sit back and get lost in it – that’s something we can all benefit from now.” … Philip Drumheller

Founded in 1904, Lane Press, located in Burlington, Vermont, is distinguished by its rich history of printing and publishing innovation. During this pandemic, Philip Drumheller, president and owner of the company, said they are open and ready to serve their clients, but are operating “very carefully and very thoughtfully.”

I reached out to Philip recently and asked him about this tragic pandemic, its effect on the business, and what he feels makes magazines and magazine media relevant, especially during these uncertain times.

“At a time like this, people are seeking trustworthy content that helps them understand the many aspects of this evolving health care crisis.”

So, here is the 17th Mr. Magazine™ interview in the series of Publishing During A Pandemic with Philip Drumheller, president & owner, Lane Press, Inc.

But first the sound-bites:

On how Lane Press is operating during this pandemic: Very carefully and very thoughtfully. We are an essential business per the state of Vermont’s Governor’s “Stay Home” order, and we very much agree with that. We know how important it is for publishers to be able to communicate with their readership without interruption – especially in such an unusual time.

On the steps they are taking to keep employees who are still working onsite safe: The health and safety of our employees is our number one priority. We have followed the guidance of the CDC from the very beginning of the outbreak. We have very thorough cleaning and disinfecting procedures in place; we ensure that employees who are in the plant maintain adequate distancing between each other; and we have as many employees working from home as possible

On the impact of the pandemic on the business: We do have a few customers who are cancelling their spring issues. Some are consolidating their spring issues with summer or combining months. It very much depends on market segment – we serve many different types of magazine publishers, all of whom have different needs and challenges right now. Our goal is to help them meet those challenges by being as flexible and creative as we can.

On any shortage of materials or workforce: No, we haven’t seen any disruption in our supply chain. And our workforce is incredibly dedicated.

On whether he ever imagined working during something like a pandemic: I’m sure none of us imagined anything of this ilk and magnitude occurring, but we’ve always believed it’s important to be prepared for the unexpected. We’ve always focused on having solid processes and well-established lines of communication in place – both internally and with our customers – so that when something comes up, these foundational pillars give us a functional, effective framework to operate in.

On what message he is communicating with his clients and his employees: Lane Press remains open and is here to help publishers continue serving their readership. And we’re doing this with a constant eye toward protecting our employees and our community.

On what he feels makes magazines and magazine media relevant today: Magazines are a vehicle for high-quality content – vetted, trustworthy, in-depth content. At a time like this, people are seeking trustworthy content that helps them understand the many aspects of this evolving health care crisis.

On any additional words of wisdom: I would advise publishers to lean on their printers for problem-solving – now more than ever. When our customers tell us they’re challenged in a particular way, we work hard to come up with novel ways to help them.

On what keeps him up at night: Concerns about the economy keep me up. There are so many small businesses in our local community and among our customer base that have worked so hard to build their businesses. And there are so many employees depending on them to continue to do so.

And now  the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Philip Drumheller, president & owner, Lane Press, Inc.

Samir Husni: How is Lane Press operating during this pandemic?

Philip Drumheller: Very carefully and very thoughtfully. We are an essential business per the state of Vermont’s Governor’s “Stay Home” order, and we very much agree with that. We know how important it is for publishers to be able to communicate with their readership without interruption – especially in such an unusual time. People need continued access to information and thought leadership. We’re glad that we can be here, open, and of service to our customers in this delicate time.

Samir Husni: Since you can’t print from home, what are the steps you are taking to social distance and ensure everyone still at the workplace is as safe as possible?

Philip Drumheller: The health and safety of our employees is our number one priority. We have followed the guidance of the CDC from the very beginning of the outbreak. We have very thorough cleaning and disinfecting procedures in place; we ensure that employees who are in the plant maintain adequate distancing between each other; and we have as many employees working from home as possible – our administrative staff and a portion of our customer service staff. I think it’s fair to say we haven’t skipped a beat.

Samir Husni: What has been the impact so far on the publishing frequency, printing, mailing, etc.? Any change in the print schedule from your clients? Skipping issues, reducing print run, etc.

Philip Drumheller: We do have a few customers who are cancelling their spring issues. Some are consolidating their spring issues with summer or combining months. It very much depends on market segment – we serve many different types of magazine publishers, all of whom have different needs and challenges right now. Our goal is to help them meet those challenges by being as flexible and creative as we can.

For example, we’ve been offering our customers special incentives on add-on features so they can add pandemic-related messaging to their magazine – like on a bellyband, a tip, or an onsert inside a polybag. All of these are great ways to add an extra layer of communication at this time. We’re also offering special pricing on a publication of narrow specifications – one we can produce most quickly and cost-efficiently. Our goal is to help publishers stay in contact with their readers. This type of flexible approach enables publishers to do that even while they’re dealing with their own very new and constantly evolving constraints.

Samir Husni: Are you seeing any shortage in paper, ink, workforce?

Philip Drumheller: No, we haven’t seen any disruption in our supply chain. And our workforce is incredibly dedicated.

Samir Husni: Did you ever imagine that you would be working during a pandemic? And can you ever be prepared for something like this?

Philip Drumheller: I’m sure none of us imagined anything of this ilk and magnitude occurring, but we’ve always believed it’s important to be prepared for the unexpected. We’ve always focused on having solid processes and well-established lines of communication in place – both internally and with our customers – so that when something comes up, these foundational pillars give us a functional, effective framework to operate in.  It worked for us during the outbreak of the Spanish Flu, two world wars, the Great Depression, numerous banking crises, oil embargos, the Great Recession, and, of course, 9/11. Together with nearly 120 years of experience, I’d say that’s why we’ve been able to adjust so quickly to this situation.

Samir Husni: What message are you communicating with your employees and clients during these uncertain times?

Philip Drumheller: Lane Press remains open and is here to help publishers continue serving their readership. And we’re doing this with a constant eye toward protecting our employees and our community.

Samir Husni: What makes magazines and magazine media relevant today?

Philip Drumheller: Magazines are a vehicle for high-quality content – vetted, trustworthy, in-depth content. At a time like this, people are seeking trustworthy content that helps them understand the many aspects of this evolving health care crisis. Many of the magazines we produce provide this kind of content to readers in business, health care, education, and wellness sectors. But also, magazines have always been an effective form of entertainment – a chance to dive into a tactile, sensory experience that is immersive and can take your mind off the stresses of the day. How much do we all need that right now? To step back and read about inspiring home design or the noble undertakings of our alumni peers, or just to look through a curated photo gallery? When your favorite magazine comes right to you at your doorstep and you can sit back and get lost in it – that’s something we can all benefit from now.

Samir Husni: Any additional words of wisdom?

Philip Drumheller: I would advise publishers to lean on their printers for problem-solving – now more than ever. When our customers tell us they’re challenged in a particular way, we work hard to come up with novel ways to help them. All businesses are thinking out-of-the-box right now. And it’s incredibly refreshing to see businesses and consumers relying on each other in such creative ways. I truly believe this is how we’ll come out of this stronger – by trusting and relying on each other.

Further, despite the enormous and obvious challenges of this pandemic, it is also a calling to simpler times… meals with family, a reduction in the frenetic pace of life, more time to read (magazines) and reflect, less noise, cleaner air and water…. It seems to me this is a crucial and especially opportune time for publishers to deliver their product to their readers’ doors.

Samir Husni: And my typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Philip Drumheller: Concerns about the economy keep me up. There are so many small businesses in our local community and among our customer base that have worked so hard to build their businesses. And there are so many employees depending on them to continue to do so.

Samir Husni: Thank you.

Publishing During A Pandemic (13)

 “I think the magazines that have great content can really use it to their advantage now and everybody should really be, as an industry, pushing forward when we come out of this because marketers out there, consumers of content, are all going to be going through some sort of reset in behavior, whether they overtly know it or not. So you’ve got to be in front of everybody with why this is an important medium.” Joel Quadracci

 “I think it’s less about preparing for the actual “what happens,” and  more about having a communication style and network within the culture of your company. It allows for people to drop everything and shift gears rapidly. Quad’s a very strong culture. It’s a very non-hierarchical culture. I wear the same uniform that the people on the floor wear and I had already started doing video blogs a bit ago on and off, but now I’ve ramped it up because the technology has changed so much.” Joel Quadracci

Quad is an American printing company based in Sussex, Wisconsin. It was founded on July 13, 1971, by Harry and Elizabeth Quadracci. The company has 39 printing facilities in the United States, as well as facilities throughout Europe, Canada, and Latin America.

Joel Quadracci is Chairman, President and CEO of the company today and has been running the company during this tragic pandemic with bold, yet sure steps. Joel says that you cannot be afraid to be bold and fast and not scared to pull really tough levers early in a situation. As long as you’re honest and communication through all channels is open and key to the process, making resolute and often hard decisions comes a bit easier, especially when those decisions are based on the good of the company.

I spoke with Joel recently and we talked about a few of the decisions he’s had to make during this pandemic, especially when it comes to the importance of keeping his staff and employees safe and the company secure.

“There’s a lot of actions we’re taking and we’ve been very flexible in terms of not being scared to go there, maybe in some cases, a little bit too far, because you are going to the point it hurts. The future is unknown right now in this situation, so you just have to assume that the worst is happening and you don’t know how long it’s going to be with us, therefore err on the side of dealing with the crisis as it is and make really bold moves.”

A future that may be unknown indeed, but Quad is dealing with it boldly and surely.

So, please enjoy the 13th Mr. Magazine™ interview in the series of Publishing During A Pandemic with Joel Quadracci, Chairman, President and CEO, Quad.

But first the sound-bites:

On operating during a pandemic: I’ve had to tell a lot of people that for the next 12 weeks they were on furlough, because when an economy just quickly shuts down, people stop marketing. And the biggest hit so far has been on the retail side with retailers not doing retail inserts

On ensuring safety at the workplace: One of the latest things we’re doing to protect our employees is, now that the CDC wants our employees to wear masks, you can’t find them. Meanwhile in the last couple weeks, some of my people came up with their own prototype of a mask that we can do on a web press.

On the impact of the pandemic on printing: It’s sort of a mixed bag. I mean certainly it’s down, whether you are talking ad pages, or what we’re seeing is a lack of visibility because everyone’s trying to understand when the pandemic is going to end.

On any shortage in ink or paper: No, we haven’t had any problem there. As you know, we manufacture our own ink…

On whether you can ever prepare to such a crisis: I think it’s less about preparing for the actual “what happens,” and  more about having a communication style and network within the culture of your company.

On his message to staffers and customers: First of all, communication is key, not just to my internal staff, but what I’d really wish I could have more of from our customers right now is true communication.

On any additional words of wisdom: Just that, in disruptive times, at least in any kind of disruption I’ve ever seen, it has always been an opportunity for the world to rethink how they do things. In our case, how they use media. I’d say that people need to understand that as we come out of this, everyone’s going to be looking at how they should do things differently.

On what keeps him up at night: I think it’s sort of the obvious, the coronavirus, and the safety of my employees.

And now for the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Joel Quadracci, Chairman, President, and CEO of Quad printing company.

Samir Husni: Considering what is going on, how are you doing and how is Quad operating during this pandemic?

Joel Quadracci: Relative to what’s going on in the world, I’m doing pretty well personally. The company is very focused and doing a lot of things during a tough situation, but hanging in there.

We have done a lot of aggressive things and we have done a lot of them very early. I guess being in the printing industry you’re used to having to react to tough things. I think we’ve learned that you always want to get ahead of things and be aggressive. We obviously have never seen a situation like this, but we’ve dealt with situations where we had to react very quickly.

We actually started in February, pushing two thousand people, within a three day notice, to work from home. And part of that was because we wanted to start heeding the safety warnings as soon as possible. And we wanted to test our idea for structure, to see if it crashes with all these people working virtually. And it ended up working quite well. I think on average we have around 3,800 people working from home and we are using a lot of technology to do it. And it’s working very well.

I’ve had to tell a lot of people that for the next 12 weeks they were on furlough, because when an economy just quickly shuts down, people stop marketing. And the biggest hit so far has been on the retail side with retailers not doing retail inserts. Just look at all the department stores that had to close overnight. We knew that was coming, so we started getting ahead of it. We’ve actually furloughed a few plants as well, just shutting them down for a couple of weeks here and there, depending on the schedule, just to get the cost down.

There’s a lot of actions we’re taking and we’ve been very flexible in terms of not being scared to go there, maybe in some cases, a little bit too far, because you are going to the point it hurts. The future is unknown right now in this situation, so you just have to assume that the worst is happening and you don’t know how long it’s going to be with us, therefore err on the side of dealing with the crisis as it is and make really bold moves.

Samir Husni: Since you can’t print from home, what steps are you taking to social distance and ensure everyone at the workplace is safe?

Joel Quadracci: That would be a lot of the back office, customer service, accounting, finance, IT people, those types of positions. And the reason you do that is because those are the people who work closely, physically close, to each other, with cube setups and office environments. On the floor of a printing plant, we are sort of naturally socially distanced. Specifically in our platform where we’ve done a lot of automation over the years. In finishing, where you typically see a lot of concentration on our large perfect binder doing a magazine, we have automation there and we’re not using that many people. The people are very spread out on the floor and we’ve really enhanced all the safety measures that the CDC has to do.

One of the latest things we’re doing to protect our employees is, now that the CDC wants our employees to wear masks, you can’t find them. Meanwhile in the last couple weeks, some of my people came up with their own prototype of a mask that we can do on a web press. Basically you run it through a printing machine with inline finishing to create a mask. Recently, we started up the presses. Now we are in the midst of wrapping up the printing of hundreds of thousands of them. We will be able to distribute them to all of our plants hopefully by early next week. I’ll be getting masks to every plant so that every employee on the floor has multiple masks they can use, because as you know these masks have a lifespan. So, that’s a big deal because of everyone in this economy dealing with the mask situation. We found some material that has never really been used for masks, but it’s a great filter and we can get it in rolls. We combine that with regular paper and we’ve created a mask that works.

And so, each part of the business has it’s different challenges with how you manage the COVID-19 virus. On the floor it’s going to be how do we get people masks and make sure we’ve got enough hand sanitizer, and make sure people are following the social distancing.

Samir Husni: What is the impact so far on the publishing frequency, printing, mailing, etc.? Any change on the print schedule from your clients? Skipping issues, reducing print run, etc.

Joel Quadracci: I’ve seen other interviews with some of the publishers in the group. It’s sort of a mixed bag. I mean certainly it’s down, whether you are talking ad pages, or what we’re seeing is a lack of visibility because everyone’s trying to understand when the pandemic is going to end. When you want to understand what’s going on in the economy, it’s constipated and the comeback is not going to be like a light switch, it’s going to be slow. I can’t start printing until an advertiser wants to give a publisher pages and so it’s going to be an interesting unwinding of this, but meanwhile what we’ve seen is people cutting back on the number of issues, some temporary, some will be permanent. I get the feeling that there are also some decisions being made that were decisions that were ultimately going to get made anyway, but this was a good excuse to move on them now.

We saw some spikes in certain parts of the newsstand side, especially in grocery stores. My wife comes home with magazines every time she goes to the grocery store because everyone is just dying for content while they are sitting around their house, which I think is a good thing, but on the other hand no one is really going to airports right now and so we’ve seen that spike kind of erode a little bit. We do a lot of high volume magazines between Hearst, Meredith, Condé Nast, National Geographic, and I think everyone is just trying to be creative, trying to manage it as they can and yet I think no one really has great visibility and that makes it hard to manage.

Samir Husni: Are you seeing any shortage in paper, ink, etc.?

Joel Quadracci: No, we haven’t had any problem there. As you know, we manufacture our own ink and we control upstream supply chain for ourselves, where we source directly to pigment providers. We even manufacture some of the other components. We’ve been able to maintain good control there. I’d say that distribution has been interesting because we get stuck in sort of a global economics of trade right now in distribution where, for instance, if we are going to the west coast from the Midwest oftentimes we are using train cars and containers and things like that and everything is a little bit disrupted because you have containers stuck in the wrong places and you’ve got disruption in distribution in general so that’s been an interesting thing to follow. It’s certainly not a shortage, so no, I can’t think of anything where we’ve had a shortage of much other than visibility.

Samir Husni: As printers you are always prepared for a crisis, but did you ever, in your nightmares or dreams, ever think of such a situation and can you ever be prepared for such a thing?

Joel Quadracci: You’d never believe it. I decided to watch that series Pandemic that came out ironically just before all this happened. I’ve watched the bird flu and I’ve watched the situation in China. You logically understand how people would be concerned that some pandemic could happen, but then you emotionally never believe it. You think, that’s never going to happen in my lifetime. I get the reasons why they worry, but then you see this happen and the pace at which it happened. You never thought you’d see something like this. We were getting ready for a recession, I think everyone was kind of anticipating something was coming, but when you see full brakes on everything within a week, no, I never would have thought we’d see something like that.

 Samir Husni: And can you ever prepare for such a thing?

Joel Quadracci: Yes, you can. I think it’s less about preparing for the actual “what happens,” and  more about having a communication style and network within the culture of your company. It allows for people to drop everything and shift gears rapidly. Quad’s a very strong culture. It’s a very non-hierarchical culture. I wear the same uniform that the people on the floor wear and I had already started doing video blogs a bit ago on and off, but now I’ve ramped it up because the technology has changed so much.

Every week or multiple times a week, I’m now doing some sort of interview with someone, but then just telling it like it is. I don’t go out there and do a video blog that’s scripted where I’ve got things I have to say that have been vetted by everybody. I actually just wing it and do it in one shot because it’s real and I know our business and I know what we’re doing, so I just tell it like it is. When we say I need to furlough a lot of people, like tomorrow, we are honest with them. We opted to tell them it’s a longer time that we were originally thinking versus a shorter time because we want them to be able to plan in their own personal lives and we just try and be very honest and also be very fast about it.

You can never prepare for what kind of disaster is coming. Everyone does disaster planning, but when it comes, the disaster usually comes in some other form than your scenarios. But if your corporation is used to pulling levers fast, and you are able to communicate very quickly, not just about what lever you’ve pulled, but the why you did it and be credible about it, you will have the following. There’s a lot of people I’ve seen pulling levers.

One of my executives has a husband who works at an industrial company in Milwaukee and he got furloughed and his notice was on his way out the door. They handed him a letter that said “you’re being furloughed indefinitely” and it was not even signed by an individual, it was signed by the HR department. That was the explanation. With us, we told everybody that we’d be doing it, it’s coming. When we did it, we told people what was happening, we kept in touch with them. Layers of communication allows you to do a lot. When you are in my position, you’re the one who’s saying we are going to charge the hill or we’re going to jump behind these barriers to defend ourselves. That’s only good if you turn around and see that the troops are following you and following what you say and if they actually believe in it. Because if it gets really insane, like it is now, you need the buy-in for it to happen.

To me, the way organizations need to be prepared for any type of disaster is how you should run your business day-by-day. I think a lot of learning experience will come out of this for a lot of companies about how they could have really been much better, and we realize now that we weren’t as good as we should have been. It’s spurring a lot of thought on our side even though we think that we are really good at it. But what is our learning now and how can we use this to be innovative in the workplace and be innovative in how we communicate on a going forward basis.

Samir Husni: Briefly, if you were to send a sound-bite to your staff and clients, what would be your message?

Joel Quadracci: First of all, communication is key, not just to my internal staff, but what I really wish we could have more of from our customers right now is true communication. They may not have the visibility I want, but it might be more than they are giving me now. And for us to be able to react and be of service to them is so important. Also in the future, trust your vendor and bring them into the circle as the crisis unwinds and how tell them how you are thinking about it. We can handle the bad news, but it’s hard to handle the bad news if it comes last minute when you’ve known about it for several weeks.

We are all trying to plan through this. I think at a certain point right now, in this industry, is respect your supply base because it’s been in trouble. I think that unfortunately we just saw that LSC filed for bankruptcy Sunday night, which was – I don’t know if it was somewhat expected, but I think it was really sped up, and there’s a whole lot of printers in trouble.

We are doing everything to make sure that we maintain a good balance sheet and get through this to the end, but it requires a true honest dialogue and communication between customer and vendor. I say that for the paper companies. I say that for the distributor. Everyone right now needs to know what you are thinking even if it’s not great news. The sooner you can let us all in on that, the better. I got a pilot’s license when I was in high school. I flew for quite a while, but I haven’t done it lately. The one thing you learn from anybody who flies in an airliner, no matter how long the runway is, you’ll typically see the pilot use every inch of it. They’ll pull to the end of the runway, even if it’s a 20,000 foot long runway and the plane only needs 3,000 feet. The reason they do that is because on takeoff, if something goes wrong the runway behind you that you didn’t use is not usable.

That’s the point of being bold and fast and not being scared to pull really tough levers early in a situation, even when you don’t know how long the situation is going to last or what the turnaround is going to be, because it’s about protecting your company for the future. If that means you cause a lot of uncomfortable pain early on for your employees personally, it’s probably the right thing to do for the business so that everyone has the strength to weather the storm.

Samir Husni: Anything you’d like to add before I ask you my typical last question?

Joel Quadracci: Just that, in disruptive times, at least in any kind of disruption I’ve ever seen, it has always been an opportunity for the world to rethink how they do things. In our case, how they use media. I’d say that people need to understand that as we come out of this, everyone’s going to be looking at how they should do things differently.

The world will go for a reset on a lot of different fronts, whether it’s how people use telecommunications now or having fewer people working. But in terms of the magazine industry, I think it’s an opportunity – or it might be a missed opportunity –to really recalibrate the world on the importance of ink on paper. I don’t know about you, but I watch four different news channels and look at ten different news sites just to try and triangulate on what’s actually true and what’s really happening. Having good content in the future might be a great opportunity.

I think the magazines that have great content can really use it to their advantage now and everybody should really be, as an industry, pushing forward when we come out of this because marketers out there, consumers of content, are all going to be going through some sort of reset in behavior, whether they overtly know it or not. So you’ve got to be in front of everybody with why this is an important medium.

One of the things that is going to come out of this is, everyone learned, those who have had to work out of their homes for a long time, they’ve learned to slow down again.  The pace at home, even though you are working hard, it’s still a different environment, so you feel like you can slow down and you start remembering things you want to do again and get hold of doing some things in between calls, whether it’s hobbies or whatever. I think that people will kind of slow down again and consume content, not just news content, but other content, sort of closer to the old world where we spent a little more time just relaxing and enjoying it.

Samir Husni:  My typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Joel Quadracci: I think it’s sort of the obvious, the coronavirus, and the safety of my employees. We had our first death of someone who got coronavirus. He didn’t actually get it in our plant, he was off for a couple weeks. But that’s close to home. Beyond that, it’s a bit about the ecosystem we plan and the point that I was just making. Our successful futures relies on the successful management that all our customers do in managing through a crisis. I would hope that through this that trust between all the parts of the ecosystem only increase, because we need to be a healthy ecosystem to do it. One part can’t be healthy without the other.

Samir Husni:  Thank you.

Publishing During A Pandemic (10)

“The message that I would send to the readers and the sponsors of Inc. is what’s contained in my CEO letter, which is published on Inc.com and Fastcompany.com. And the gist of the message was on the Inc. side, that we have stood by small business owners and fast-growing entrepreneurs for 40 years and we will stand by them now and do whatever it takes to help them through this crisis. No one understands them better than we do. And when we get to the other side of this, Inc. will be there with them once again.”… Eric Schurenberg

“On the Fast Company side, it’s the same message for that different audience. We have helped define a cadre of creative, innovative, tech-forward, socially-conscious businesspeople who imagine a future of business in which all of those characteristics come to the fore. And we know that those characteristics will help people succeed during this terrible crisis. And that Fast Company will be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with those readers, helping the imagine a better future.” … Eric Schurenberg

Two titles that have their finger on the pulse of all things business, Fast Company and Inc. magazines, are staying true-to-form during this pandemic: they’re standing shoulder-to-shoulder with their readers.

Eric Schurenberg is CEO of  Mansueto Ventures, home of Fast Company and Inc. I spoke with Eric recently to discuss this tragic pandemic and what it’s doing to our nation and the world, both health-wise and economically. And while Eric remains optimistic about our economic future, he does believe that the quicker the pandemic is over, the sooner our economy will be able to rebound. He said that he is hoping for a V-shaped recovery rather than a U-shaped as many economists call them: “I’m hoping for a V-shaped recovery and I think that the odds of that remain better than even as long as things are resolved quickly.”

But Eric also puts a lot of faith in the readers of his products, the entrepreneurs who he believes will find the innovative solutions to get our country back on its feet promptly, and the small business owners who are the backbone of our financial system.

And now please enjoy this tenth installment in the series of Publishing During A Pandemic, in the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Eric Schurenberg, CEO, Mansueto Ventures, Fast Company & Inc.

But first the sound-bites:

On how he is operating during this pandemic: We sent everyone home on March 11, so a few days after your school did. We’ve been working from home since then. Occasionally, people ask when I think we’ll go back and of course, no one knows, we’ll be out indefinitely. Certainly not this month. Like everybody else, we’re doing a lot more Zoom meetings and doing less email and more Slack, and reviewing other technology platforms that might make remote working easier and getting advice in that regard.

On whether being from the editorial side of the magazine business instead of the business side has helped him as CEO during this crisis: It’s different. Better in some ways, not better in other ways. I think that the Town Hall thing was an example of one of the ways in which it helped. I had contacts at the Chamber of Commerce dating back to my days as editor, so I communicated with a partner over there and conceived how the town halls might work the way an editor might conceive them. So that was a big success.

On whether he’s had to make any changes to his publishing schedules due to the pandemic: We’ve made no changes, and so far the one issue for each brand that we’ve closed since the emergency hit has been above goal. That could be a reflection of the fact that we just had a really strong start to the year and advertisers stuck with us rather than pulling out because of the crisis. Or it could be that budgets that were set for live events have moved to print partly, some of that money has moved to print. But so far, so good on the print side.

On how he views the relevancy of Inc. and Fast Company magazines today during this pandemic:  The magazines and the titles, we are certainly magazine brands, and paper is not the only way that we convey information and serve our readers. But I would say that the brands are more important than they have ever been and you can see that just in the kind of contact we have with our readers. As I said, the town halls we have to help people understand how to get loans from the government  help people with small businesses, assist entrepreneurs in getting loans from the government, these have been huge successes. And we’ve drawn in people from all over. And what that says to me is when you’re in distress, as many small business owners are now, you turn to the brands that you trust most. And for many small businesses that’s Inc. and Fast Company.

On whether he ever envisioned something like this happening, even in his worst nightmares: In many ways I think that 2008 was worse for the industry, just because the financial system was in danger of collapse. And I don’t think we’re there yet. We know that many people are out of work and many industries are hugely challenged, but we also know that this will end. And that the infrastructure itself is not threatened if it ends within a reasonable amount of time. So unlike the financial crisis in 2008, where people were discovering how rickety the financial system was, how overleveraged and how it was balancing on the head of a pin and no one knew that before, and wasn’t really sure of what it meant, those were scarier times.

On any message he has for his reader, advertisers or staff: The message that I would send to the readers and the sponsors of Inc. is what’s contained in my CEO letter, which is published on Inc.com and Fastcompany.com. And the gist of the message was on the Inc. side, that we have stood by small business owners and fast-growing entrepreneurs for 40 years and we will stand by them now and do whatever it takes to help them through this crisis. No one understands them better than we do. And when we get to the other side of this, Inc. will be there with them once again.

On what keeps him up at night: The biggest worry is that the recession will be deeper and longer than I think it will be. I’m not an economist in any way, and most economists are wrong anyway in their prognostications as we know. If this is longer and deeper than I now imagine, then that would be bad. Economists talk about U-shaped recoveries in which there’s a long period where the economy is in a depressed level. And V-shaped recoveries, where the economy rebounds promptly off a low point. I’m hoping for a V-shaped recovery and I think that the odds of that remain better than even as long as things are resolved quickly.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Eric Schurenberg, CEO, Mansueto Ventures, Fast Company & Inc.

Samir Husni:  How are you operating during this pandemic?

Eric Schurenberg: We sent everyone home on March 11, so a few days after your school did. We’ve been working from home since then. Occasionally, people ask when I think we’ll go back and of course, no one knows, we’ll be out indefinitely. Certainly not this month. Like everybody else, we’re doing a lot more Zoom meetings and doing less email and more Slack, and reviewing other technology platforms that might make remote working easier and getting advice in that regard.

The events business, of course, was the most hard-hit and most directly hit. We had high hopes pinned to our activations in South By Southwest (SXSW), where we were setting up content panels and keynotes and everything like that, activations, for both Inc. and Fast Company, and they were very popular. There was a lot of interest and sponsors and registrants, and when that went down, that was a blow. On the other hand, I’m so glad that we didn’t go because that would have been terrible now that we understand how widespread and communicative this disease is.

We managed to rotate most of the sponsors from South By into another platform, either postponed events or digital events or other media, like a page of the magazine or a place during conventional advertising on Inc.com or Fastcompany.com, so while it was a blow, we didn’t go down to zero.

In the meantime, we’ve been having significant success with our digital events. Recently, we had a Town Hall, we called it, about the “CARES Act” and how business owners can access that money that the government made available to small businesses to help them preserve payroll and get loans to get through this emergency. We’re doing that in partnership with the Chamber of Commerce. We’ve maxxed out at 10,000 registrants for both of the weeks that we’ve done it and basically have had to turn people away at 10,000. Inc.’s largest physical event, the Inc. 5000, runs around 2,000 people, so this is a multiple of that event, in terms of its attendance. Interest and sponsors is running strong, so that has been a success story for us in the wake of the crisis.

Samir Husni: You’re one of the few CEO’s who came out from the editorial ranks, not from the business ranks. During this crisis, has being from that side of the magazine world helped you at all in your role as CEO?

Eric Schurenberg: It’s different. Better in some ways, not better in other ways. I think that the Town Hall thing was an example of one of the ways in which it helped. I had contacts at the Chamber of Commerce dating back to my days as editor, so I communicated with a partner over there and conceived how the town halls might work the way an editor might conceive them. So that was a big success.

But I have really good editors in charge of both Inc. and Fast Company, and anything I do as editor in chief without portfolio, if you will, is on top of what they do there. They’re totally competent and wonderful editorial leaders and it’s not like they need my help.

Samir Husni: Have you made any decisions in terms of the publishing schedules or frequencies, are you continuing to publish the print editions as usual  or you’ve had to make some changes due to the pandemic?

Eric Schurenberg: We’ve made no changes, and so far the one issue for each brand that we’ve closed since the emergency hit has been above goal. That could be a reflection of the fact that we just had a really strong start to the year and advertisers stuck with us rather than pulling out because of the crisis. Or it could be that budgets that were set for live events have moved to print partly, some of that money has moved to print. But so far, so good on the print side.

Samir Husni: You deal with the business, with the economy, small businesses with Inc., the economy as a whole with Fast Company. And two of the main topics that the world is talking about right now is health and the economy. How do you see the relevancy of those two magazines now, during the pandemic, and as we eventually move out of the crisis?

Eric Schurenberg: The magazines and the titles, we are certainly magazine brands, and paper is not the only way that we convey information and serve our readers. But I would say that the brands are more important than they have ever been and you can see that just in the kind of contact we have with our readers. As I said, the town halls we have to help people understand how to get loans from the government  help people with small businesses, assist entrepreneurs in getting loans from the government, these have been huge successes. And we’ve drawn in people from all over. And what that says to me is when you’re in distress, as many small business owners are now, you turn to the brands that you trust most. And for many small businesses that’s Inc. and Fast Company.

Fast Company’s traffic on Fastcompany.com has been as much as 80 percent above its usual pace. People are truly finding the information they need, the comfort, and the advice that they’re looking for at this time.

Samir Husni: As a journalist and as a CEO, have you ever envisioned, even in your worst nightmares, anything like what is happening today with this pandemic? Where the entire country and basically the world has shut down?

Eric Schurenberg: In many ways I think that 2008 was worse for the industry, just because the financial system was in danger of collapse. And I don’t think we’re there yet. We know that many people are out of work and many industries are hugely challenged, but we also know that this will end. And that the infrastructure itself is not threatened if it ends within a reasonable amount of time. So unlike the financial crisis in 2008, where people were discovering how rickety the financial system was, how overleveraged and how it was balancing on the head of a pin and no one knew that before, and wasn’t really sure of what it meant, those were scarier times.

You remember, for example, the stock market went down for more than 20 percent three years in a row during that crisis as more of a financial weakness became evident. Today, the stock market went down dramatically right away and then began to rebound. Now the stock market obviously is an imperfect measure of the health of the economy, but it is a good measure of the state of mind of investors. And I think what you’re seeing is a sense that this catastrophe is serious, but it’s circumscribed. We know what’s causing it and we know that it’s going to end within some timeframe that we can imagine.

It’s awful for some industries and in many ways the entire economy will be changed, we know that too and we can’t exactly predict how it will be changed, we just know it will happen. I also think it’s a lot easier to imagine how things will return to a semblance of normal and that will happen in a matter of months, not years.

Samir Husni: What message would you like or are you already communicating to your employees, your readers, and your advertisers? Is there any specific message?

Eric Schurenberg: The message that I would send to the readers and the sponsors of Inc. is what’s contained in my CEO letter, which is published on Inc.com and Fastcompany.com. And the gist of the message was on the Inc. side, that we have stood by small business owners and fast-growing entrepreneurs for 40 years and we will stand by them now and do whatever it takes to help them through this crisis. No one understands them better than we do. And when we get to the other side of this, Inc. will be there with them once again.

On the Fast Company side, it’s the same message for that different audience. We have helped define a cadre of creative, innovative, tech-forward, socially-conscious businesspeople who imagine a future of business in which all of those characteristics come to the fore. And we know that those characteristics will help people succeed during this terrible crisis. And that Fast Company will be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with those readers, helping to imagine a better future.

To my employees the message is, what we have always done at Inc. and Fast Company matters now more than ever to our readers. They are looking to us for information, validation, for recognition of the sacrifices they’re making and for reassurance that they’re not alone. That they have Inc. and Fast Company standing right beside them as they find their way through this.

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Eric Schurenberg: The biggest worry is that the recession will be deeper and longer than I think it will be. I’m not an economist in any way, and most economists are wrong anyway in their prognostications as we know. If this is longer and deeper than I now imagine, then that would be bad. Economists talk about U-shaped recoveries in which there’s a long period where the economy is in a depressed level. And V-shaped recoveries, where the economy rebounds promptly off a low point. I’m hoping for a V-shaped recovery and I think that the odds of that remain better than even as long as things are resolved quickly.

I also have tremendous faith in the creativity and power of innovation of entrepreneurs, and in the kind of people who read Fast Company and Inc. I think that they are going to come up with a solution. And if it’s not a vaccine, it’ll be achievements. And before that they will find a way to manufacture the tests in the volume that we need and get them distributed in the way we do. Entrepreneurship is the vehicle for delivering innovation in a dynamic economy, I’ve seen it happen many times before. And I know our readers at Inc. and Fast Company, and I have a lot of faith that a solution lies with them.

Samir Husni: Thank you.  

Publishing During A Pandemic (9)

 “For our magazine business, we’re keeping our print publishing schedule the same as always. And I will say, there was a technology task to get our editorial for our magazine product development to work remotely, because the designers work with such big files and important technology systems. So, that was also a transition that I’m happy to say we’re on the other side of. But we’re keeping our print schedule the same.” … Kent Johnson

 “My overall message and the way I’m trying to lead through this crisis is with transparency and much more frequent communication to our company. But the main message is we will get through this and we’ll get through it together. In a time of crisis and stress, we have to double-down on our values and we have to double-down and emphasize the purpose of our company.” … Kent Johnson

Faith and learning to adapt, two things that CEO Kent Johnson and his teams at Highlights for Children are having and doing to continue to publish during this pandemic. I spoke with Kent recently and he was candid and very grateful for his team’s ability to continue with quality content despite the stress and disruption of this terrible crisis. He said nothing would change about their publishing schedules for now and was very thankful for the online products that Highlights offers for children and that they were doing so well in this day of homeschooling and isolation.

Having a degree in physics, Kent said he believes and enjoys data-driven thinking and decision-making, but with the pandemic, his idea of leadership for himself and his company is through transparency and much more frequent communication to the company.

“I try to focus all of us on our mission and remind us all that however hard it is today, we’re going to get through this as a country. We’re going to get through this as a global, interconnected human population. We have to keep our faith, but be realistic and do the best we can every day.”

Indeed, Kent. We will get through this together.

And now please enjoy this ninth installment in the series of Publishing During A Pandemic, in the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Kent Johnson, CEO, Highlights for Children.

But first the sound-bites:

On how Highlights for Children is operating during this pandemic: All things considered, we’re operating pretty well. We have great leadership from our governor here in Ohio. We jumped on the idea that we had to be fully remote pretty early in the process. We trusted our teams and empowered our IT and leaders to get us working remotely. I was just amazed at how fast they did it. After the initial adrenaline of the change, we’re now in the stage of trying to figure out how to get used to it, be productive and be well-balanced in this virtual office environment. I’m impressed with our team and happy that we’re adapting as well as we can.

On whether the work-from-home move was easy or hard for everyone: I would say that we were lucky and it varied by function. We made the decision on a Wednesday morning that we should do a dry run of work from home on Friday, but by Thursday night we decided we would just go fully to work-from-home. So, it took us about maybe 72 hours due to some of the tougher positions. And that includes getting customer service, our contact centers, getting those people who deal with customers to be able to work from home too. So, there was a technology piece to that as well.

On whether he is considering any changes to publishing schedules or frequencies due to the pandemic: For our magazine business, we’re keeping our print publishing schedule the same as always. And I will say, there was a technology task to get our editorial for our magazine product development to work remotely, because the designers work with such big files and important technology systems. So, that was also a transition that I’m happy to say we’re on the other side of. But we’re keeping our print schedule the same.

On the message he has for his staff and readers during this pandemic: My overall message and the way I’m trying to lead through this crisis is with transparency and much more frequent communication to our company. But the main message is we will get through this and we’ll get through it together. In a time of crisis and stress, we have to double-down on our values and we have to double-down and emphasize the purpose of our company.

On whether his degree and background in physics has helped him during this pandemic in running a major magazine media company: It’s interesting, because I do have training in science and I love to be a data-driven decision maker in business and our company thrives on data. We, as a leadership team, have been very conscious and very explicit that in a time of crisis we say all our crystal balls are sitting shattered on the floor. We’re trying to use our intuition, use our heart and lead more like a general than a rational thinker. We take all of the data we have, but we have to make decisions in a time of crisis more rapidly. We remind everyone that we can’t be perfect, that we have to move quickly and make decisions in a decisive manner. And communicate why we’re doing it and what we’re doing, and adapt.

On whether Highlights’ worldwide publications have been impacted by the pandemic: Our international business is really important to us from a mission perspective. I think we’re still trying to understand the impact globally on our business. I will say that maybe as a company we had sort of an early insight into the impact of this pandemic. One of our key customers, a really valued partner for us is based in Wuhan. And we’ve worked with them for many years to get our Highlights/High Five content and other early childhood content to preschool kids in China. So, we both had the early view of what happened to business as Wuhan and Hubei province shut down in China.

On what keeps him up at night: Uncertainty. It’s probably keeping us all up at night. We have to take this day-by-day with faith that the purpose of our company is important today and will be important on the other side of this. I lose a lot of sleep thinking about our people, hoping our people are keeping a  balance in their lives so that they can perform well and maintain their mental and physical health and an effectiveness in their lives as a whole, across their families, extended families and their colleagues at work.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Kent Johnson, CEO, Highlights for Children.

Samir Husni: With everything that’s going on today, how is Highlights for Children operating during this pandemic?

Kent Johnson: All things considered, we’re operating pretty well. We have great leadership from our governor here in Ohio. We jumped on the idea that we had to be fully remote pretty early in the process. We trusted our teams and empowered our IT and leaders to get us working remotely. I was just amazed at how fast they did it. After the initial adrenaline of the change, we’re now in the stage of trying to figure out how to get used to it, be productive and be well-balanced in this virtual office environment. I’m impressed with our team and happy that we’re adapting as well as we can.

Samir Husni: Was the work-from-home move easy or hard for everyone?

Kent Johnson: I would say that we were lucky and it varied by function. We made the decision on a Wednesday morning that we should do a dry run of work from home on Friday, but by Thursday night we decided we would just go fully to work-from-home. So, it took us about maybe 72 hours due to some of the tougher positions. And that includes getting customer service, our contact centers, getting those people who deal with customers to be able to work from home too. So, there was a technology piece to that as well.

Samir Husni: With the pandemic, are you considering changing any frequencies or any of your publishing schedules or is everything status quo for now?

Kent Johnson: For our magazine business, we’re keeping our print publishing schedule the same as always. And I will say, there was a technology task to get our editorial for our magazine product development to work remotely, because the designers work with such big files and important technology systems. So, that was also a transition that I’m happy to say we’re on the other side of. But we’re keeping our print schedule the same.

We’ve seen a pretty significant increase in demand for the products from Highlights that aren’t our magazine. Our Highlights Learning line of products, things like workbooks, summer workbooks, get ready for Pre-K, getting ready for K, kind of fun with a purpose with more explicit learning objectives. Those have sold incredibly well on Amazon and through our site as parents are looking for help with their kids home now and with everyone trying to be a homeschooler across the country. We’ve been working very hard to keep ourselves in inventory and market those products appropriately, let customers know. That’s been a bright spot in our service to customers.

The other thing I would say is that where we have changed from the old role of content is we’ve just launched this week a program we call “Highlights At Home,” which is a frequent publication of helpful digital content that has inspirational messages from our chief purpose officer, Chris Cully. It has humor and activities that you can do at home. And we’re both launching that to our consumers directly through social and email, but we’re also making that content available to partners who want to provide it to other companies, other nonprofits who want to provide it directly to their customers.

So, we’re totally changing the rules about intellectual property and how we partner just to try and be of help to families and parents stuck at home during this pandemic and this crisis.

Samir Husni:  You’re a physicist by education, did you in your worst nightmares ever envision something like this happening, not only in the United states, but across the entire world?

Kent Johnson: Many of us have contemplated this in the realm of fiction. I was trained as a physicist and between finishing my degree in physics and coming into the magazine industry, I spent six years in the medical diagnostics industry, including working on some assays for biotoxins. So unfortunately, I have run in the circles that think about the technologies we use to detect viruses and disease. I have been exposed to people who have worried about this, but you don’t take that risk seriously in your day-to-day life. But I do think this kind of pandemic was anticipatable and it’s just horrible that it’s here. I’m rooting for every family, for every company, and for every government as we try and adapt and get through this together.

Samir Husni: What message do you have for your staff and your readers during this pandemic?

Kent Johnson: My overall message and the way I’m trying to lead through this crisis is with transparency and much more frequent communication to our company. But the main message is we will get through this and we’ll get through it together. In a time of crisis and stress, we have to double-down on our values and we have to double-down and emphasize the purpose of our company.

I’ve been talking a lot to our employees about what we do, whether it’s in education in our magazines, across all our products. We’re not the frontlines; we’re not the medical providers who are the heroes right now, but what we provide is a really important service to families as they try to broker the disruption and the stress. I try to focus all of us on our mission and remind us all that however hard it is today, we’re going to get through this as a country. We’re going to get through this as a global, interconnected human population. We have to keep our faith, but be realistic and do the best we can every day.

Samir Husni: During this pandemic, does your degree and background in physics help you in any way running a magazine media company?

Kent Johnson: It’s interesting, because I do have training in science and I love to be a data-driven decision maker in business and our company thrives on data. We, as a leadership team, have been very conscious and very explicit that in a time of crisis we say all our crystal balls are sitting shattered on the floor. We’re trying to use our intuition, use our heart and lead more like a general than a rational thinker. We take all of the data we have, but we have to make decisions in a time of crisis more rapidly. We remind everyone that we can’t be perfect, that we have to move quickly and make decisions in a decisive manner. And communicate why we’re doing it and what we’re doing, and adapt.

I think a crisis like this has caused me and our leadership team to adapt our style. And it adapts a little bit away from the scientific and the rational to the more intuitive and the heart, leading with values and best judgements, given what we know at the time.

Samir Husni: I know you have worldwide publications also; have those been impacted by the pandemic?

Kent Johnson: Our international business is really important to us from a mission perspective. I think we’re still trying to understand the impact globally on our business. I will say that maybe as a company we had sort of an early insight into the impact of this pandemic. One of our key customers, a really valued partner for us is based in Wuhan. And we’ve worked with them for many years to get our Highlights/High Five content and other early childhood content to preschool kids in China. So, we both had the early view of what happened to business as Wuhan and Hubei province shut down in China.

But what’s inspiring for our people and it reminds me of our message point that we are going to get through this is, right now we’re constantly talking to our partners in China and watching China’s economy come back on line. We’re very worried about our friends in China and worried about the impact on their economy and their society just as we’re worried about the impact this will have on all of us.

One of the things we did early on when they shut down schools in China is we had a pilot going for our Highlights Digital Library, which is a digital platform with thousands and thousands of stories that have been published in Highlights and  High Five over the years. Early on we rolled that out as broadly as we could through our partners for free. We expanded the pilot to reach as many kids as our partners could at home, because they were stuck in the homeschool environment early and in isolation and with social distancing.

So, I’m very concerned about the impact on the global economy and we’re just trying to support our partners and work with them as their businesses get back on line.

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Kent Johnson: Uncertainty. It’s probably keeping us all up at night. We have to take this day-by-day with faith that the purpose of our company is important today and will be important on the other side of this. I lose a lot of sleep thinking about our people, hoping our people are keeping a  balance in their lives so that they can perform well and maintain their mental and physical health and an effectiveness in their lives as a whole, across their families, extended families and their colleagues at work.

I believe we’re all kept up at night thinking about the public health and all the pain and suffering, first in the public health, second in the economy, and for all those people this impacts directly and indirectly. We will get through this, but it’s hard.

Samir Husni: Thank you.

Publishing During A Pandemic (5)

“It’s time for us to be leaders. We have to be insanely creative in how we work and how we understand value as we’re creating. We have to be more innovative than ever, and there are going to be times that it’s really hard. We need to fuel that emotion and then move on.” Troy Young

“We’re seeing people want to consume lifestyle content because in some ways it’s an alternative to just the relentlessness of hard news. So, people want our content, they love our brands. And figuring out how we deliver against that and how we pay for it is one reason why we’re going through a period of so much change.” Troy Young

In this fifth installment of publishing during a pandemic, I reached out to Troy Young, president of Hearst Magazines, to see how Hearst was managing during this tragic and uncertain time. As we continue to see the gloom and doom in the news media, and very rare mention of anything uplifting or positive, Troy and his team are determined to shed some bloom and brightness with quality content. The glass can be viewed as half full as easily as it can half empty, and Hearst is pushing forward with serving their customers where they are and via any platform they like.

I spoke with Troy very recently and we talked about how magazines and magazine media content is more relevant today than ever before. People are looking for valued and trusted information  from those credible brands that they have come to know. Troy pointed out that in one month alone,  the Hearst Magazine brands published 1,900 health-related articles.  Amazing indeed.

Trusted content will always come from trusted brands…

So, please enjoy the fifth installment of the Mr. Magazine™  series: Publishing During A Pandemic with Troy Young, president, Hearst Magazines.

But first the sound-bites:

On how Hearst Magazines is operating during this pandemic: The first thing we had to do is move our workforce into collaborating and connecting in an entirely new way. Fortunately,— because we have a fairly large composition of very technically sophisticated workers, be it engineers or digital editors — it’s been relatively seamless. And, we have been using digital tools to connect with each other for a while now, so the transition to working remotely has been less disruptive than you’d expect. I’ve heard that from many others too, so I think the world is adjusting well.

On when the pandemic is over if he thinks there will be a pause for consideration in the traditional office environment:  I’m actually hopeful that we can use this as an opportunity to create some more lasting change. One of the bright spots for many people and for many senior executives is — for example — how efficient we can be when we create a virtual meeting. We set up a Zoom link and five people can be looking at each other and we can run a very productive meeting in 25 minutes. That gives us more flexibility in a lot of ways, in terms of our personal lives and our professional lives.

 On whether Hearst is considering any publishing schedule or frequency changes: What’s really important to me is wherever we’re creating a product —whether it’s a print, digital, video or experiential product — it has to be a great product and consumers have to value it. I think you’ll see us look critically at frequency across some of our titles, as we’ve been doing for a long time. We made the decision to change frequency on Esquire months before the pandemic crisis — you may see more of that.

On whether he had ever envisioned a crisis situation like we have today and how he might have prepared for it: I don’t know if you can prepare for it, but I feel like the fundamental structural transformation that we have gone through in magazine media was hard work and we had to make a lot of hard decisions. To an extent, that prepared us for the next set of hard decisions that are coming at us so quickly because of this pandemic. But, I don’t think any of us could have seen this coming as quickly as it did and as aggressively as it did.

On whether he thinks magazines and magazine media are relevant today: I think that we should separate two sides of magazine media: What is the content and how is it being packaged and distributed? To me, magazine media never goes away. And to me, magazine media is not the news. It is point of view; it is passions; and it is perspective; and it moves in and around the news and the things that people care about, but it brings more perspective to that conversation. And that’s what is so wonderful about it. And all of the journalism that surrounds it.

On any message he would like to send his advertisers, readers or staff: The first thing for our advertisers right now is we’re thinking about them, because I know that their businesses are incredibly difficult. And whether you’re in retail, luxury, fashion, beauty, or the automotive space, your business is facing many significant challenges. As a partner, I’m worried about them and their businesses and want to know how we can help them.

On what he tells his teams when they get together for a meeting: It’s time for us to be leaders. We have to be insanely creative in how we work and how we understand value as we’re creating. We have to be more innovative than ever, and there are going to be times that it’s really hard. We need to fuel that emotion and then move on.

 On what keeps him up at night: What keeps me up at night is that, as a society, we need to stay connected to our better angels. Cuomo said it best, and I totally agree: How do we keep positive; how do we keep helping one another. And I worry sometimes that in a crisis like this, we can let it get the better of us. And I think that we have to be like that on every level. With our families; with our coworkers; and in society. And if I worry about anything it’s, how are we reacting to these challenges and are we staying positive?

And now the lightly edited Mr. Magazine™ interview with Troy Young, president, Hearst Magazines.

Samir Husni: There’s so much doom and gloom taking place currently, not only in the world, but in the media circles. How are you as president of Hearst Magazines operating the company during this pandemic?

Troy Young: The first thing we had to do is move our workforce into collaborating and connecting in an entirely new way. Fortunately,— because we have a fairly large composition of very technically sophisticated workers, be it engineers or digital editors — it’s been relatively seamless. And, we have been using digital tools to connect with each other for a while now, so the transition to working remotely has been less disruptive than you’d expect. I’ve heard that from many others too, so I think the world is adjusting well.

We’re starting to see some of the challenges though, in terms of the effect it can have on mental health. We’re seeing the challenges of parents who are having to balance managing a school in their home and doing their work simultaneously. These types of changes are concerning given that they have the potential to put more stress on our employees.

The other question is how — during these unusual circumstances — do we move bigger projects forward and implement bigger initiatives that we were planning. How do we get those going. I think this might be a little harder to do in the remote workforce.

On top of that, we have real challenges across the industry. We have a varied portfolio, from women’s services to luxury to men’s publications, but some of those worlds are being hit tremendously hard — fashion and luxury, in particular. It will impact everybody’s revenue in the industry. I’ve spoken to many across the magazine industry and the sentiment is pretty consistent, this is going to be a really challenging time.

Our point of view is that the effects of coronavirus will accelerate trends that we’ve already been working on for quite some time. And those trends are managing rate bases more aggressively: growing our digital business, growing consumer revenue, becoming a leader in the commerce space and further developing our video production capabilities. But those are challenges that we were facing before —they are now just coming at us really fast.

Samir Husni: When the pandemic is behind us, do you think there’s a possibility that, as in education, where universities are rethinking how they’re teaching online, considering how well your teams are working remotely, do you think there will be a pause for reconsideration of the traditional office environment?

Troy Young: I’m actually hopeful that we can use this as an opportunity to create some more lasting change. One of the bright spots for many people and for many senior executives is — for example — how efficient we can be when we create a virtual meeting. We set up a Zoom link and five people can be looking at each other and we can run a very productive meeting in 25 minutes. That gives us more flexibility in a lot of ways, in terms of our personal lives and our professional lives.

So, I do think some of the learnings will rewire how we think as workers and certainly as a media company. And some of those will be really positive.

Samir Husni: Are you thinking of changing any publishing schedules, any frequencies for the print products? Are you concentrating more on digital or is everything for now still status quo?

Troy Young: What’s really important to me is wherever we’re creating a product —whether it’s a print, digital, video or experiential product — it has to be a great product and consumers have to value it. I think you’ll see us look critically at frequency across some of our titles, as we’ve been doing for a long time. We made the decision to change frequency on Esquire months before the pandemic crisis — you may see more of that.

Some of these changes may be short-term, given the lack of ad-demand right now, some may not be. But what’s really important underneath all of it is that you still create a product that the consumer really desires.

Samir Husni: Did you ever, in your worst nightmares, envision a situation like this? And how do you prepare for it?

Troy Young: I don’t know if you can prepare for it, but I feel like the fundamental structural transformation that we have gone through in magazine media was hard work and we had to make a lot of hard decisions. To an extent, that prepared us for the next set of hard decisions that are coming at us so quickly because of this pandemic. But, I don’t think any of us could have seen this coming as quickly as it did and as aggressively as it did.

Samir Husni: In the midst of all that’s happening, why do you think that magazines and magazine media are relevant today? Or are they relevant today?

Troy Young: I think that we should separate two sides of magazine media: What is the content and how is it being packaged and distributed? To me, magazine media never goes away. And to me, magazine media is not the news. It is point of view; it is passions; and it is perspective; and it moves in and around the news and the things that people care about, but it brings more perspective to that conversation. And that’s what is so wonderful about it. And all of the journalism that surrounds it.

I think that will persist. How a model of delivering that content on the printed page in a package through a set of distributors and retailers and how that gets reshaped are different questions. But I believe there will be demand for the printed product for a long time and it will hold up better in some categories than others. I think it holds up really well in shelter and fashion.

And in other places like lifestyle media for men and in health — we see a strong demand and consumers really like the product. It’s changing and as it changes, our job is to evolve how we distribute content. And if you look at what magazine publishers have done over the last decade, we’ve become incredibly nimble at creating content for ten different distribution points. And creating multiple different types of content from short Tweets to new video formats to online features — and we still continue to produce magazines. I think our industry is really resilient, and our job as leaders is to follow how consumers want to consume our content.

Samir Husni: Is there any message you want to send to your staff or your readers or to your advertisers during all of this?

Troy Young: The first thing for our advertisers right now is we’re thinking about them, because I know that their businesses are incredibly difficult. And whether you’re in retail, luxury, fashion, beauty, or the automotive space, your business is facing many significant challenges. As a partner, I’m worried about them and their businesses and want to know how we can help them.

The second thing that I would say is, I just looked at our March digital performance — in terms of the content we created and how it was read, and I can tell you that people still want to hear from us. The distribution of our content continues to grow; year over year we’re up. Our teams have been incredibly responsive.

Last month, we published 1,900 articles around Covid-19, but found different ways to talk about it that was relevant to our different audiences. And we’re seeing people want to consume lifestyle content because in some ways it’s an alternative to just the relentlessness of hard news. So, people want our content, they love our brands. And figuring out how we deliver against that and how we pay for it is one reason why we’re going through a period of so much change.

Samir Husni: What do you tell your team every time you meet for a meeting? What’s your message of encouragement?

Troy Young: It’s time for us to be leaders. We have to be insanely creative in how we work and how we understand value as we’re creating. We have to be more innovative than ever, and there are going to be times that it’s really hard. We need to fuel that emotion and then move on.

And, most importantly, we have to care for our coworkers.

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Troy Young: It’s so funny that you ask that, Samir, because our executive team meets every morning at 9:00 a.m. and sometimes we talk about a broad range of things. This morning, it started with how many people right now are waking up in the middle of the night? And I made the joke that maybe we should shift the call to 3:00 a.m.

But what keeps me up at night is that, as a society, we need to stay connected to our better angels. Cuomo said it best, and I totally agree: How do we keep positive; how do we keep helping one another. And I worry sometimes that in a crisis like this, we can let it get the better of us. And I think that we have to be like that on every level. With our families; with our coworkers; and in society. And if I worry about anything it’s, how are we reacting to these challenges and are we staying positive?

Samir Husni: Thank you.