TAG you are it, and a new interactive ink on paper magazine is born. The brainchild of an illustrator, artist, and storyteller, Anthony Deptula, with the help of his nine-year-old son, Hugo, came up with the idea of creating an interactive print publication after seeing the lack of kids’ interactivity on You Tube due to COPPA (The Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act) regulations.
TAG number 1
His love for drawing started as a kid in kindergarten. He started drawing at a very young age and continued to this day with creative stints at Disney Interactive, Maker Studios, You Tube, and now Netflix. With TAG, he wanted to curate and create something big—literally big (approximately 11 X 15)—that kids can interact with, draw on, tear apart, erase, make paper airplanes from, and do whatever their minds and imagination call for. In short, he succeeded in creating a magazine whose tagline (pun intended) says, “No parents allowed,” but is very much welcomed by parents who love for kids to have some screen free time.
Anthony has two issues under his belt and is now working on issues 3 and 4. Recently, TAG became available on Etsy. A post on LinkedIn said, “If Etsy is your jam, you can now grab Issue # 1 of TAG over there. TAG is a screen-free kids magazine for drawing, comics, creative writing, and generally making stuff.”
On a personal note, I may add that, in addition to Highlights and High Five, my grandkids are now receiving TAG, the magazine. I hope that those who have kids or grandkids in elementary or middle school, will consider getting them some screen-free time with interactive TAG. Click here to get a subscription to the magazine.
And now, without any further ado, here is the lightly edited interview with Anthony Deptula, founder and editor-in-chief of TAG, the magazine:
Anthony Deptula, founder, TAG, the magazine
Samir Husni: Congratulations on the new magazine.
Anthony Deptula: Thank you.
Samir Husni: You must be out of your mind to start an ink on paper magazine in this digital age.
Anthony Deptula: Yeah, I don’t know if I’m out of my mind or just nostalgic or understanding that parents want less screen time for kids.
Samir Husni: Your tagline, pun intended, is a creative magazine made of paper. Is it describing the obvious or?
Anthony Deptula: One thing that I’ve figured out as we’re just getting started here, kids didn’t really know what magazines were. And a lot of parents had to explain to them what it was, which is kind of wild to me.
It’s tongue in cheek, trying to be funny, made of paper. I like that it’s made of paper, for me, it’s tangible. Everything is so fleeting today. I like that it’s a piece of paper and kids can draw on it. Kids can have it delivered to their house or where they live, their apartment. That’s exciting to receive something and get something is still exciting for kids.
Amazon proves that; every day, getting something from Amazon, being able to order it, kids still like getting packages and getting something in the mail.
Samir Husni: You say no parents allowed. How are you marketing the magazine?
Anthony Deptula: One parent submitted some art. And I was, okay, that’s interesting. It was pretty good.
Kids love that. Kids really love that. We have a little different style than competitors. We’re a little baby magazine, but we’re a little more punk, as you can tell. We’re a little more comic book based, graphic novel based. And the style is black and white. It’s all over the place. To answer your question in marketing, grassroots, we’re working with partners. One of the interesting things that we’re doing are pop-ups.
For issue number two, we did a partnership with an ice-skating rink, and we worked with a young nine-year-old, hopeful Olympian, in Charlie Roost. She was the model in the ice-skating spread. We’re giving away free ads as well to like-minded partners.
If you look at issue one, those are all free ads in the back. Those partners are like-minded community partners, and they’re pushing it out for me on social, on their newsletters, in person. That way, we’re just growing.
We have no funding. It’s sort of growing grassroots. The more people that know about it, the better it is, because then we get to exist.
Samir Husni: Go back with me to that aha moment. When did you get the idea, and how was TAG born?
TAG number 2
Anthony Deptula: I grew up in Steubenville, Ohio. My dad worked at Weirton Steel in West Virginia. In Weirton, at our home we had old calendars, the desktop calendars. I would draw on them.
I would make comics with my best friend who was in kindergarten. I was in first grade. I always loved drawing.
In 1998 the United States introduced COPPA (The Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act). YouTube took away comments from kids, because of COPPA. Very safe, very smart. Totally agree with it.
But I think kids lost this interactivity. I helped make a few YouTube shows, one with GoldieBlox. I was an executive producer, which had 60 million views. And another, I was working at Maker Studios as an exec and helped shepherd the idea that had 300 million views.
That was all core curriculum on YouTube, first and second grade. The kids were so engaged and so interested and excited. I just thought, if every page is almost a partnership, if every page is interactive because magazines have had that sort submissions for years. That why TAG is big. I like how big it is.
Kids love the size. It’s not precious. You can tear it up, you can make it papier mache, you can turn it into a paper airplane, and you can erase it. Kids today lost their youth voice. I thought this would be an interesting way to reimagine a magazine where every page is interactive.
On every page, they get a chance to put their comic, their graphic novel, a story that they want to tell and really help them create content that they like, because a lot of content that is created for kids, they don’t like. So, TAG is a little bit of an old Nickelodeon style; to let the kids decide.
Samir Husni: Tell me a bit about your background. You must have a unique background to do this.
Anthony Deptula: I’m from a working-class family, moved to LA and I’ve worked in television. I did comedy in LA.
I had a feature film that I wrote, produced, and acted in at Sundance. I became an executive and started making a lot of kids’ content working for Makers’ Studio, Disney, GoldieBlox, Female Empowerment Toy Company, and Slumberkins. I have a lot of toy clients right now.
I’ve never made a magazine. But I wanted to draw again. I literally just wanted to draw again. People seem to be responding. We’re starting to do wholesale sales.
We’re starting to get into brick and mortars. We have subscriptions, which is great. My background is creative. I have a creative background. I love artists. A lot of the artists that I’ve worked with over the years are in the magazine. Those artists have worked at Disney, Cartoon Network. You know, I also like fine art, which is one of my favorite pages in the spread. We don’t talk down to kids.
Samir Husni: Who is the audience you are trying to reach? I know it is children, but can you be more specific?
Anthony Deptula: The age range is wild, Samir.
I would say first to eighth grade. It’s a very wide range of kids that are loving this thing. I think because of the rise of Captain Underpants and Wings of Fire, all these graphic novel books, kids that are just older are still into comics and drawing and storytelling.
I have a unique perspective. I had a lot of people tell me not to do this, and I didn’t listen. It’s very hard.
Samir Husni: You chose illustrations over photography. Why?Do you think as a creative person, people connect more to illustrations than photography?
Anthony Deptula: There’s some photos, like 1% photos, but. I wanted to draw again. And issue number two, a young woman from Maine, submitted a photo of a bay with a little building. She was thankful publishing it.
There’s also a photo of a sculpture that a young man did, which I thought was cool. I like all the different styles, and I like that we’re a lot different than our competitors. I get to work with the different artists on different spreads, and I think that illustration is what kids like.
Samir Husni: The question I like to ask folks who launch new magazines is, during this six-month period since you launched TAG, was it a walk in a rose garden, or you had quite a bit of challenges? And if you did, how did you overcome them?
TAG number 1
Anthony Deptula: Sure. I’m still in them. The challenges are mainly of getting more subscriptions. We’re not like a legacy brand that’s been around for a long time, and everyone’s kids love it. The wild thing is the feedback everyone says, “this is going to be huge.”
I go, okay. I’m kind of one person with a bunch of freelancers in my basement, and I hope it will be huge. But I’m just trying to overcome the problems, because there are issues starting any sort of business. Trying to find the format of it all is interesting.
I had a lot of people that helped me. Two schools where I brought in the prototype of the magazine, I called, Tag-Ins, just separated sheets of paper. I took these to the schools to get started and schools started filling these out. That was generating content for me.
I was trying to sell these as separate. You got to buy these, and then you got to buy the magazine. Everyone’s like, what are you talking about? And that’s when I decided, oh, I just have it in my head. I have to tell people how this works. Here’s the fairy tale, you fill it out, it becomes this. Here’s time machine one.
Then here’s the people, the kids that talked about history and the folks that they wanted to meet. When you have an idea as a creative, it’s hard to translate sometimes until you prototype it and you put it into the world, and then you start learning. A couple of school principles, a lot of kids, friends and family really helped me understand how to assemble the magazine, to explain it, because it’s a little different.
Samir Husni: Give me your elevator pitch. If somebody met you on the street said, Anthony, what’s TAG?
Anthony Deptula: I say it’s an interactive paper magazine where kids fill out to become the published artists and writers.
Samir Husni: Before I ask you my typical last two questions, is there any question I should ask you I did not ask you?
Anthony Deptula: I would say I’m from Ohio, so I was influenced by Highlights.
There’re a lot of people that tell me it reminds them of Highlights, and some of them don’t even know Highlights still exists, which is interesting to me. I grew up with Highlights. My uncle worked for a sister company of Highlights on the education side, and I feel there’s a real need out there, and all the work that they’ve done over the years inspired me to try to give it my own shot, which is kind of wild to say: I’m going to become a publisher, but people seem to be responding.
I would say the magazines from the past have helped me in the curation, and of making it creative. Even Eastbay or MAD Magazine, or Sports Illustrated for Kids, and The Onion, great magazines that are still printing. Tangible is important to me, and I appreciate, the past publishers that have been around a long time. The great part about not knowing how to run a magazine is I get to invent different spreads that have never been invented or bring those spreads back to life.
For example, the blank black page in issue number two or the kid in issue one erasing the comic. It really made me upset at first, but then I was like, oh, that’s actually a good idea. I’m going to make a blank page so kids can do their own art on it.
I love the big palette. I wanted to be different from Highlights. I wanted to be different from the Ranger Ricks of the world that are serving and been helping kids for a long time, and that’s, hopefully, why Tag feels a little different.
The Tag team is great, too. I have a lot of great young artists, and they bring a lot of energy to this project where they just jumped on board with me. I am also working with a local printer in Tecumseh, Michigan. They’ve been supportive as well. They’ve been around a hundred years, and excited to have a new mag.
Samir Husni: My typical last two questions, if I come to visit Anthony in the evening, unannounced, what do I catch you doing? Reading a book, illustrating, having a glass of wine?
Anthony Deptula: I usually watch Dune, the movie. So, there’s Dune one, part one and two.
Or I’ll play soccer with my son. He’s nine. He helped me with the magazine.
His name’s Hugo. So, if you can mention him, he won’t give me grief.
Hugo helped me with Tag, he helped me create it. Or, I’ll be on the porch with my wife: She’s reading. We got a new puppy.
I work 24-7 because of my job. Netflix is my day job. They’re a client. So, I’m always working.
Samir Husni: And what keeps you up at night these days?
Anthony Deptula: I sleep well. I don’t know. My sprinkler, something’s going on with my sprinklers. They keep shutting off. So, I think I got to fix that.
Samir Husni: Thank you so much and best of luck. You are it.
It takes a geezer to start Geezer magazine—and that’s exactly what Laura LeBleu did: a 100% handcrafted magazine content and AI-free.
Laura LeBleu, Founding Editor, Geezer magazine
The founder and editor-in-chief of Geezer comes from a theater background, not the publishing world. Frustrated by the lack of anything to read that truly spoke to her needs, interests, and stage of life, Laura found inspiration in an unlikely place: the shower. That’s where the idea for Geezer, a magazine created for herself and the Gen X community, was born.
The result is a beautiful, oversized publication that combines a trip down memory lane with a thoughtful look at the issues and concerns facing Gen X today. Laura is the first to proudly admit that she’s a geezer, and she hopes Geezer will eventually grow into a media organization that gives geezers across the country a place to connect, come together, and enjoy this stage of life.
Geezer magazine, issue one
Knowing just how large and diverse the Gen X community is, Laura is determined to keep Geezer independent and focused on its very specific audience, with no desire to turn it into a mass-market publication. It’s a smart move for a woman who is quick to tell you she has no traditional business background and instead comes from a life deeply rooted in the theater world.
I had the opportunity to chat with Laura about the birth of Geezer, its content and audience, and even the distinctive experience of holding such a substantial magazine in your hands. It was a delightful conversation, and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed conducting it.
So, without any further ado, here is my lightly edited interview with Laura LeBleu, founder and editor-in-chief, Geezer magazine:
Samir Husni: Thank you for sending me the first issue. It was like a time machine.
Laura LeBleu: Oh, indeed. I’m glad you got it. Hopefully you enjoyed it.
Samir Husni: Yes, I did. Please tell me about the idea of Geezer. Laura LeBlue: Geezer magazine was created from my realization that there was no one talking to Gen X in the way that I wanted to be talked to. The actual story is that I was in the shower and I had the idea, and I knew I wanted it to be a print magazine. I knew I wanted it to be called Geezer.
So, the name Geezer is from a focus group of one. That’s my brain. I was just thinking about it.
The only equivalent that we have right now is AARP. When I got my first AARP flyer, I set it on fire. I thought this isn’t the conversation, how dare you come to me? There are probably other people who are feeling this way.
To me, it seemed there was a desire to have a print magazine that addressed the issues of midlife in the way that AARP couldn’t, honestly, because of who they are. They’re mostly a marketing and lobbying organization. So, I thought, well, I’ll do it. Why not? Someone’s going to, it might as well be me.
Laura LeBleu The proud mama…
Samir Husni: And you did a beautiful job in an oversize, 11 by 15 print publication…
Laura LeBleu: I was inspired by Mountain Gazette magazine, which is slightly larger, as you probably know.
I thought if I’m going to do anything, I wanted it to have impact. I wanted to have a visceral feel when you held it. And I also wanted to make it easy on the eyes.
Samir Husni: Why did you decide on print in this digital age?
Laura LeBleu: I tend to zig where everyone else is zagging. And I’ve been thinking a lot about where we are as a society in relationship to technology.
I personally could feel myself overwhelmed with digital information. I call it the empty calories of digital content, that it feels like you’re force fed. It leaves you feeling bloated but never satisfied.
Print, to me, is the antidote to all of that. Print is amazing, and I’m sure you’ve experienced this. I will give Geezer to someone, and they’ll hold it in their hands, and I see their shoulders drop. They will take a breath.
There’s something about print that grounds you and calms your nervous system in the exact opposite. It’s the opposite of what all the barrage of digital content does to us. I was very adamant that this be a print magazine, and that we don’t share all our content online.
I will share some stories, obviously I want people to know what’s in the magazine, they should know that if they’re to plunk down 120 bucks a year for it. I feel print deserves its own special space in the world. These stories deserve to be experienced in print.
Samir Husni: One of the folks commented on my interview with the CEO of Highlights for Children, he said, “digital is brain drain, print is brain gain.”
Laura LeBleu: It’s innervating. It really is, isn’t it? That’s why when people pick up the magazine, it feels the opposite. It feels nourishing. It feels like it makes you stop and focus on what’s in your hands, what’s right in front of you.
From the response I’m getting, I’m not the only one who feels this way. People are really beginning to understand what I’m doing with this magazine.
Samir Husni: Your editorials read as if you are reliving your memories.You’re sharing your journal or your diary?
Laura LeBleu: Well, I would say so. I’ve thought a lot about this as far as the editorial mix goes and what our focus is. I never want to over-rotate into nostalgia.
I don’t want it to feel like we’re all just looking back and talking about when we were drinking out of the water hose, and our parents were off smoking their cool menthol cigarettes while we were playing with fireworks. I don’t want it to rotate too far into that. But I feel we must.
We also must acknowledge that we’re in midlife, we’re looking back and we’re examining what our experiences were growing up. That is a nostalgic portion of the Geezer editorial mix.
The other portion, 60 to 65 percent of the magazine, is about the issues that we’re facing today as we go through middle age, as we’re entering our 50s and our early 60s. That’s where the larger stories are going to come from; the nonfiction narrative and the more reported pieces are going to dig into.
Samir Husni: You have two issues under your belt, and the third issue is on its way. Tell me about this journey.
Geezer number two
Laura LeBleu: We almost have a full year of Geezers out because we publish tri-annually.
The third issue is at the printers right now waiting for the paper to be delivered. I refuse to print on anything other than Sustana, which is 30 percent recycled. I love this paper. It’s got a great texture to it. It’s 80 pounds, heavy and not slick. It feels a little bit tactile, a little bit rougher. That is very much the Geezer ethos. That is how I approach everything in this magazine. We are not slick and we are a little rough around the edges. But I feel that’s a very Gen X sensibility.
Samir Husni: Has it been a walk in the rose garden?
Laura LeBleu: It’s been the hardest thing I have ever undertaken in my entire life, Samir. And it’s also been the most fulfilling journey I’ve ever been on, creatively speaking.
I wrote an article on Substack called This Might Not Work. I don’t know if you saw that, but I break down some of the economics of creating a print magazine, all the dumb mistakes I made, super rookie mistakes, because I’m not a business mastermind. I just had this idea.
I come from a theater background. I have this, hey, kids, we got a barn, let’s put on a show, outlook on life. That’s how I approached Geezer to get the ball rolling and just to crank it out and create something.
The biggest challenges have been financial. We’re up to almost 500 annual subscribers. The first one came out last November. So, from what I can tell, as far as industry goes, that’s quite good.
Making the magazine is the fun part. The hard part is all the business that goes into it. I honestly feel like I’m running this thing and putting it together by bubble gum, hopes, and dreams.
I’m trying to get my business foundations more solid so that I don’t have to worry about how is our subscription? How is our circulation being managed? Right now, I’m working on moving to SimpleCirc so that I have a more bespoke way of managing all of that. But that’s even hard. I hate all the buttons that you must push in software platforms.
I know I can do it. But I would so much rather focus on creating the stories and working with the writers. I’ve come to accept my position as an entrepreneur and a businessperson. So, today after I talked to you, all I’m doing is working on the update of our website to get it refreshed so that it reflects the magazine a little bit more. Those are the challenges. I’m committed to seeing another year of Geezer through and hopefully we’ll get the subscribership that will allow us to be sustainable. I’m a cockeyed optimist. I do believe that the way people are responding now, if we were going to get that critical mass, and I truly believe that that this magazine is going to start to take off.
Samir Husni: When that first issue landed in your hands, what was your feeling?
Laura LeBleu: Oh, my gosh, I’m a mom, I do have a wonderful 16-year-old son. Second to him being born, having this magazine in my hands was the greatest thrill.
I’m sure you’ve heard this from many magazine founders; there’s nothing like holding something in your hands that is a true expression of you and your editorial vision. Some background, I I’ve been writing for other people for 25 years, I’ve been creating for other people and spending my creative energy on other people’s needs. To finally have something that was an expression of my own creative vision, and to have it in your hands, and to be able to know that no one can take that away from you. There’s nothing more exciting. It really is an elation beyond belief.
Samir Husni: If you and I are having this discussion in July or August of 2027, what would you tell me Laura have accomplished in that year?
Laura LeBleu: Well, first and foremost, I would hope that we have hit a subscriber base that allows me to sustain the magazine, and to pay myself someday. But I also am, as Arjun Basu says, and I am a huge fan of his, I was listening to a podcast he was on recently. And he said, “Listen, you’re not a magazine, you’re a media, you’re a media organization.”
I’ve been working on how to expand that, how to expand myself as a media entity, and how to create the community that I want to create. So, this time in two years, if I’ve created a community of people who can connect with each other, can come together over, with this magazine as the nucleus of the, of the community, but also, you know, to have it expand into people getting together having Geezer gathers, hopefully doing a podcast with the people who are featured in the magazine, that would be amazing. I would also love to have a business partner to work with, who can help me expand on these visions I have, that’s something I’m missing right now, because it’s just me at this point.
Samir Husni: If people want to order back issues, are they available? Laura LeBleu: I have back issues of number one. So that’s available for purchase on our website. It’s Geezermagazine.com. And I’ll be releasing back issues of number two, next week. Issue number three will be out, hopefully in the mail at the end of next week.
Samir Husni: I must ask about the name Geezer…
Geezer number three
Laura LeBleu: It’s funny, the name Geezer, I thought it was hilarious. I’m like, that’s a funny, it’s just a funny word. It evokes different things. For Gen X, it was very tongue in cheek, because I feel like we’re not geezers at all.
It had that Gen X ironic twist. People have written me and said, “I’m in my 60s or 70s. Can I still write for you?” And my answer is unequivocally yes.
We are what we are. If the issue is something that focuses on and resonates with Gen X. It’s a wide tent that I’m trying to create here. The editorial vision for Geezer is that it doesn’t look, smell, taste, sound, or read like anything else you’ve ever picked up. I really wanted to make something that felt completely like the metaphor. Like that creature in the woods that you think you know, but you’re not quite sure. You must pick it up to see what’s in there to get it.
Samir Husni: Is there any question I’m supposed to ask you I didn’t ask you?
Laura LeBleu: Oh, goodness gracious. We’ve covered the basics for sure. Let’s see, what else would I want to answer, who is your audience? I would say that Geezer is not for everyone. It’s for the people who recognize it immediately. Although it’s Gen X, we’re not trying to focus on a mass market.
It does resonate strongly with the people who had the eye for what, what I’m creating. I hope people love it.
The one thing that I would want to tell you is how one of the greatest and most wonderful surprises of entering the world of independent magazines is the support, the kindness, and the reaching out of people within the community that I’ve received. So, it’s been unfailingly positive.
I do feel I’ve stumbled into this wonderful world where we really do want to see each other succeed. I’ve been so lucky to make connections with different publishers, new writers. That for me has been the greatest surprise I’m most grateful for. I’m part of something bigger now and that keeps me going.
Samir Husni: If I come to visit you one day, unannounced, what do I catch Laura doing in the evening watching TV, reading a book, having a glass of wine?
Laura LeBleu: Often, you’ll catch me in the theater. I’m either directing or volunteering. I live in a little town in California, but we have an amazing art scene up here. In fact, a lot of artists and actors from New York or San Francisco, when they’re done with the big city, they come here.
We have this really thriving art scene and I’m involved in a theater company here. You’ll probably not see me. I don’t sit and watch a lot of TV. Otherwise, I’ll be reading or out on the trails running. I need to, that’s the only way I can balance my brain is by is by physical activity. I don’t really drink wine anymore. A good book is always a good thing. I have 79 unread books on my nightstand. I don’t trust anyone who doesn’t have a few unread books on their nightstand is waiting to go.
Samir Husni: My typical last question, what keeps you up at night these days?
Laura LeBleu: Besides the general state of our world, it’s how to make Geezer successful. Right now, that’s about creating those business foundations I was talking about.
A lot of things that keep me up are like I needed to respond to that email where someone pitched a story to me, that slipped through the cracks. I don’t want people to feel like I’m not there and paying attention.
But when you are a one person publishing band, it’s difficult to keep up with all the communication. My brain will wake me up around three in the morning. This is not theoretical. This is literal. I’m kept up by wanting to make sure that I’m giving everyone who loves Geezer, who wants to write for Geezer, the attention that they deserve when they reach out to me.
Samir Husni: Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me. Best of luck.
If you would have told the co-founders of Hiii magazine, Pam Patterson and Rob Hill, that their journey with the magazine will be an “out-of-body experience,” they would have told you, “you are out of your mind.” When I first saw Hiii, I fell in love. I am not their audience, but I am The Audience for every good, well done, ink on paper magazine. Hiii was that magazine and that was the reason I selected it The Launch of the Year in 2024.
That great content and feeling did not stop with the first issue. Eight issues later and the magazine is going strong with even stronger content and design. Hiii is spreading its wings and going national via subscription for the first time since its inception. The magazine has been limited, due to the different cannabis laws, to the greater LA area and was distributed at the dispensaries of the city. Now, it is your chance to “Get Hiii at Home.” A very smart ad campaign announcing the national launch of the magazine from sea to shining sea.
Rob and Pam are not new to the ink on paper venture. Rob has launched and edited seven previous titles and Pam owned an ad agency in LA. So to say they have placed their combined experience to create a magazine that you can’t put down would be an understatement.
“I read it cover to cover,” is the frequent statement that they usually hear. And who am I to disagree. Every time the issue arrives by mail, Mr. Magazine™ is engaging with Hiii cover to cover. A job very well done and a magazine that is highly recommended.
To “Get Hii at home,” click here and to read the lightly edited interview with Pam Paterson and Rob Hill, co-founders of Hiii magazine, sit down relax and let the fun begins:
Samir Husni: I love your ad campaign, “Get Hiii at Home… Print is Premium” You talk about a very nice way to celebrate your second anniversary. So, has it been a walk in a rose garden these two years? Or in a mushroom field?
Pam Patterson: In many ways, it has been both. A complete exhilaration and an out-of-body experience. People have embraced the magazine and the content so completely that we’re a little dumbstruck to watch people engage with something that’s not their phone. What’s amazing, Samir, is we launched on August 8th, 2024, at Woody Harrelson’s The Woods, which was probably the best of all the cannabis lounges, and it’s so interesting to watch, in just those two years, how print went from being lost in the fog, to now, completely emerged.
We see it every day. Every single day, we see something that shows us that print is powerful. People are wanting it, especially people in their 20s, many budtenders read this magazine from cover to cover. That’s the biggest comment we get. The highest praise is, “We read it from cover to cover.” I recently just experienced an issue of Architectural Digest, because, of course, I get a couple of magazines myself, as do most of the people in the United States. I was so pleased to be able to go from the very front page to the very back page, and everything was just hitting with me. I understood the statement, “I read it cover to cover.” It’s a very satisfying experience. And honestly, not that common.
Samir Husni: This is the first year you are offering subscriptions at home, that people can subscribe. Is it national or still limited to LA?
Rob Hill: The distribution of the physical magazine is in dispensaries from Santa Ana to Ojai in Los Angeles. But with this big subscription push we’re going national.
We’re coming at this because print is being reborn, and it’s got some new things to it, and old things, right? People are loving getting magazines in the mail. It’s an exciting thing, because you don’t get anything good in the mail anymore. Except bills. And so, you’re getting this beautiful magazine. You’re getting new ideas. New food for your mind.
We really wanted to do a campaign. We’re going to be partnering with some other brands. And we think the way forward is to get out of the echo chamber, which is one of the reasons Instagram is not effective as a form of marketing, at least not in cannabis.
It’s like working at a cola company and going to lunch in the cafeteria, and that cola ad or logo is on the wall; you already work there. You already know everything about it. You’re sold. You’re not hitting anybody new.
We know we have a product that people like and want. And now we’re finding our people outside of our physical distribution.
Pam Patterson: The cannabis industry is a smallish niche. People come from all around the country to go to these trade shows and events. Oftentimes, even events we’ll have at our HQ in Frogtown, on the LA RIVER, we’ll get people from other states, multi-state operators (MSOs) who carry the love home to new regions.
But for now, we’re only available free in dispensaries in LA. So subscriptions makes us accessible to the whole US. We’re finding that people want that. The content is very national.
Samir Husni: Like you say, in your ad campaign, print is premium and creating a premium product is not cheap. Tell me about whether there were any struggles, challenges, or was it an easy thing to do?
Rob Hill: Well, I’ll just say, I’ve launched seven magazines and something always surprises you.
One of the big things that we’ve learned is that we have the best advertisers in our business, basically, our core advertisers that stay with us. Now we’re building on top of that. But the subscription model that we have spent the last couple of months researching and talking to people about is going to put us in a position where we’re not just an advertising driven platform, because we all know that advertisers have bad quarters and bad years, they change management, and they change marketing directors.
The people who subscribe don’t cancel.
Curiously enough, people that advertise with us, they have no digital path. Because our industry has very hostile algorithms for both Google and social media. If they spend a lot of money investing in digital, the next day they may just have it completely erased by Instagram and pull the plug on a hundred thousand viewers and that’s that. We’ve had that happen to many of our advertisers. It’s quite shocking because one of them, I went to go tag them the other day because they had sent us some goodies, and they were just gone. I emailed the owner and he’s trying to see if he can recover his audience. Sometimes they can’t. This can represent 10 years of work. And, you know, he’s very upset. The great thing about print is that it can’t be censored, shadowbanned, tracked, etc. This is becoming a big factor in the backlash against social media, etc.
Samir Husni: What are the advantages for people who prefer to have an ink on paper magazine?
Rob Hill and Pam Patterson
Pam Patterson: “A”, people don’t trust the information online anymore. I don’t know about you, but I see some piece of Ai on my phone on the web or social media and I just disengage immediately and go elsewhere. That factor is only going to increase. And fast.
And “B”, the hostile algorithms. People don’t have a way of figuring out what the good/clean cannabis brands are. We’re very dedicated to raising up those producers who grow weed without pesticides and the legacy farmers of the Emerald Triangle who grow some of the most valuable cannabis in the world.
One of the idiosyncrasies about cannabis is that you need to switch it up every once in a while. If you keep with the exact same strain and producer all the time, the effects can fade a bit with tolerance. We highlight cannabis contest winners because then people gain insights and inspiration into what they should be trying that’s new. Endorced by the community.
People enjoy experimenting, but not with their health. We plug people into the good stuff. And of course, the bigger thing is just a sense of community. People identify with our content. We’ll have upcycled fashion or we’ll have art that’s kind of homespun or out there in new ways.
Our audience trusts us and we take that responsibility seriously. It’s a very powerful thing.
Rob Hill: It’s a strong thread that goes through all of those things. And on top of that, there is a medical efficacy. We’re able to highlight the ways in which cannabis can help people, like with epilepsy or autism, even with skin problems, and it’s been valuable with PTSD and treatment resistant depression.
There are a lot of circumstances that we highlight for our readership. We’re a magazine for people who partake. So, it’s not just cannabis. It’s also psychedelics. And psychedelics are something that are super coming up in the world these days. Eli Lilly just bought a company for 3.8 billion dollars. It’s a nasal spray for people who have treatment resistant depression. It’s proven effective to help people. We work on a basic kind of triad of: pragmatic, fun, and educational.
In this new issue, we have a feature with Marshawn Lynch, who is a Super Bowl champion and Hall of Famer from the Seattle Seahawks. He’s been smoking his whole life. He started a company with his cousins called Dodi, specifically for people in their 40s and 50s who have aches and pains.
He talks a lot about how close to 100 percent of the people he knows in football use cannabis, and use it a lot more than we thought. You see a lot of different people who have had deep and personal experiences, who then turn those learnings and passion into a company because they believe they’ve seen it work firsthand.
In terms of what Pam was saying, I’ve never been part of a magazine that had the editorial mix that we have. It’s got that feel of Vanity Fair in its heyday in the sense of the breadth that we cover. There’s something for everyone in this magazine. That’s what Graydon Carter always used to say in his interviews. There’s something for everyone in every issue of Vanity Fair, even if it’s just one feature that you love. And we try to do that.
We covered a story on Heroic Hearts in our latest issue, which is a company that sends veterans to the forests of Peru to go on psychedelic healing journeys. They pay for it all. We went and met them. They’re doing incredible work. There’s way more veterans out there suffering than we’re being told. This is something that we’re happy to support. Four times more veterans kill themselves by suicide than die fighting for the country. It’s definitely a really prevalent thing that society seems to have only a very surface understanding of. We believe people want to know more.
We delve down into the details of what’s going on, what the different types of trauma are. When you understand it better, it makes more sense. You can be more compassionate around the use of psilocybin and those sorts of things.
Then, of course, we met the people who had benefited by the treatment. It’s very moving because what they’re wrestling with can be very traumatic.
Pam Patterson and Rob Hill
Samir Husni: That content is what impressed me about Hiii and the reason I named it launch of the year two years ago. There’s genuine content that you can sit down and read, even if you don’t partake. There’s a lot of information. You can’t skim Hiii.
Rob Hill: Thank you.I agree. We pay a good rate for an independent magazine for our writers, because our coterie of writers, half a dozen to a dozen; they’re just fantastic.
It’s the best writing and the best visuals put together. It’s almost like everything I’ve done in my life and that Pam’s done came together in this sort of rainbow–these colors and the design, you sink into these articles.
Pam Patterson: That was important to me. I’m an ADHD stoner, so anything I’m going to read really has to entertain or inform me. Good writing with a good rhythm that’s colorful, but not too out there should draw and push you along in the article. That’s important. We wanted the magazine to be completely readable, but also to have a little bit of that early Wired magazine feel, where you let the designs take over.
I think we’ve done that. And now, going on two years, we are looking to expand. We’ve hit a lot of our goals in Los Angeles, and every step of the journey has rewarded us ten-fold with the enthusiasm and connection of the community in a way I frankly didn’t expect.
I’d be hard-pressed to find someone that’s a stoner in L.A. that doesn’t know about Hiii. These first two years, we’ve established ourselves here. That’s been really important in terms of the long game.
And now we’re being asked to come to New York, New Jersey, Toronto, and a few other places. We are looking to expand.
Samir Husni: With the design of issue eight, the cover, even if you’re not familiar with the magazine, it’s a cover that is going to grab you and say, pick me up.
Pam Patterson: I’ve had an ad agency for 20 years and I’d never worked on a magazine unless it was for a corporate client. Which is frankly more of a bastardization of the art form! But I think this background helps us approach the puzzle quite differently than others might.
We use a lot of tools of engagement, images intended to spark curiosity, small touches that bring the joy of discovery, and meaningful things that, as partakers, we know people are curious about. Sometimes I feel some of those magazines that have been around for 20, even 50, years have lost the light, lost the love of their subject.
I’ve been a daily smoker since I was 13. I’ve loved the herb my entire life. There’s no lack of stories for us to lean into and showcase for people. Cannabis is a food for creatives.
Rob Hill: The other thing that I find is that every generation wants their own stuff, whether it’s clothing, or music, or magazines. There haven’t been a lot of magazine launches in the last decades for this new generation, because I’m guessing the big boys and the big girls don’t think that there’s room for it. But we just saw W Youth. They’re launching a magazine for the younger generation. And that, you know, depending on how they do it, I think is exciting.
We aren’t your father’s magazine or your grandfather’s magazine. We’re your magazine. It’s new and exciting and growing. I’m excited for all the launches and to be a part of it. With cannabis now being legalized in Germany and Thailand and a lot of other countries like Australia and Portugal ready to go, there’s a lot of positives right now, both in print and in cannabis. And when we started, it wasn’t quite that way. Both have gained traction over the last couple of years, for sure. And investors are perking up a lot more because they’re understanding this.
And one thing I’ll add, we just got back from the California State Fair, which was in Sacramento. And the Cannabis Village there had, I think, 30,000 square feet. We had a couple thousand magazines there. And it was just so great to watch people walking around this exhibit, carrying the magazine, and rolling up joints on top. Right next to the funnel cakes, the donkeys and the wine and beer. It is exciting to watch cannabis be a driving force in these older paradigms and fit right in.
Samir Husni: If you and I are having this conversation a year from now, what would you tell me you’ve accomplished in 26 -27?
Pam Patterson: We were able to put ourselves in the hands of every partaker in the nation and bring a community of diverse people together for the greater good. Even the weed community has diversity with different audiences.
But there’s also racial diversity; diversity in opinions of why cannabis is important; there’s a pretty equal split between men and women. There are a lot of older people in dispensaries trying to help themselves feel better. And we have seen, there’s definitely a unifying of all of these audiences through the connection to cannabis. It goes surprisingly deep. And crosses most social confines.
We find that with people in cannabis, there’s a predisposition to liking each other, and to understanding the joke, or just getting it. When you know, you know. I never met a stoner I didn’t like.
Samir Husni: Before I ask you my typical last questions, is there any question I should ask you that I failed to ask you?
Rob Hill: No, I think the questions have been quite good, and it’s really what’s been on our mind. We’re excited, really excited to see the momentum.
We’re glad that you’re back because we need you. I’ve been seeing your postings. These are going to be some exciting times. It’ll be different than the past, but that’s good!
Pam Patterson: There are only four states now where cannabis is completely illegal. If there ever were to be a time for federal legislation, it’s definitely more possible than ever.
Hiii surprises people. People open it up and they’re surprised to find that they’re interested and engaged.
It’s as simple as that. A simplicity that is surprisingly sweet in this day and age. The funny thing is that digital doesn’t surprise us anymore. And we don’t believe it. Ai has accelerated that x10. The backlash has been pretty swift. And I think digital disgust will continue to grow.
Rob Hill: You were asking about the future. In the next year, we want to be in a couple more cities.
We want to build up a very solid, loyal subscriber list and newsletter list, and nurture our community with the magazine and at events. People want the magazine, we’ve learned that. So we need to get the mag in front of more partakers so that they can give it a shot.
I’m going to tell you a quick little anecdote. And it was probably the best thing that happened: our driver was sick. And Pam and her daughter went out to do the deliveries. She got to see firsthand what it’s like when you show up there with these magazines. I’ll let her give you some anecdotes.
Pam Patterson: They cheer. And cheer. They’re excited. They talk about how their customers have been coming in and asking for it. They tell us about taking the covers off, framing them, and putting them on the wall. They love doing collages with our imagery. They’re proud to showcase it on their coffee table. They collect all of the issues. They tell us over and over again, “We read it cover to cover. We love it! Our customers love it!”
Rob Hill: It’s fun. We’ve won the readers over but you can never get complacent. I’ve always believed that some magazines launch just for the advertiser, they didn’t truly put their attention to the readers. I was brought up by a couple of magazines earlier in my career, that if you get the readers first, the advertisers are almost forced to come along.
Not every single one of them, but they will gravitate towards the thing that passionately engages their audience. That’s important. Now that we know readers are re-emerging, there’s a whole new generation of curiosity.
We have great advertisers and we would like more. But we’re excited by other revenue streams as well.
Samir Husni: My final typical question: what keeps you up at night these days, Pam?
Pam Patterson: Doing the magazine is an immersive joy. But we need to expand. We’ve touched on a viral element that seems to just go and go. But as a former ad agency owner, I know these things don’t last forever.
So we want to lean into that now. It’s an important phase in our development. Making the jump to the next stage. Getting enough subscribers and getting enough advertisers on board is what keeps me up at night, for sure. Always.
Samir Husni: And Rob?
Rob Hill: The only thing that keeps me up at night is wanting to get to work in the morning. Crazy.
From the beginning, when Pam and I met, we were on the same page. We want to get to, you know, around 10 pivotal cities in the US. The ones that can support us, while we build up our list, build up our presence, build up our brand and then even have it licensed to other countries.
In some ways, there’s a way bigger upside to cannabis than there is to Ai. It’s a much better thing, it’s more creative and has a spiritual component that people should not underestimate. The backlash against AI is fast and furious right now. We hear and see that every day. Of course, AI will play a role in our future, but people are pretty hip to what’s going on, and are thirsting for authenticity.
In addition, the average response rate for print ads is 9%, significantly higher than the 1% for digital ads; print ads command 82% consumer trust, while digital faces challenges like ad blockers; combining print and digital strategies can lead to 400% more effective engagement than digital alone; print can reach a tangible, attentive audience more efficiently.
There are plenty of reasons for the rise of print, and they will only grow. Tangibility creates trust. The revived interest in print magazines has also been attributed to the analog preferences of Gen Z readers. They are making wallpaper collages in their offices from the pages of Hiii! How bout that!
Samir Husni: Excellent. Thank you and all the best
When the CEO of Highlights for Children Inc. tells you that there is a movement from technology to analog in the life of kids, you listen. Kent S. Johnson, the great grandson of the company’s founders Garry and Caroline Myers, has been at the helm of the company for the last two decades and is doing an excellent job keeping the vision and mission his great grandparents set for the company in 1946 when they created Highlights for Children with the goal to create experiences that have fun with a purpose.
Kent’s mission to continue this vision with the goal of inspiring “children become their best selves and is focused on making a greater impact in supporting children and families across the globe.” I had the opportunity to chat with Kent as he was preparing his report for the board and family meeting later this week. What follows are words of wisdom from someone with a Ph.D. in Physics from Harvard University.
So, like the old saying goes, “When Kent speaks, you listen.”
Without any further ado, please join me for this lovely and lightly edited interview with Kent S. Johnson, CEO, Highlights for Children:
But first the soundbites:
On his elevator pitch for Highlights for Children, Inc.: “Things are moving in the positive direction after what’s been a period of a lot of disruption and uncertainty. I think the uncertainty remains. But knock on wood, things are moving in the right direction.”
On the future: “So while I’m not bullish because the world has so many curveballs to throw at us, I feel cautiously optimistic about where we are and where we’re headed.”
On AI and its role: “I and many of us are really fascinated by what the tools can do internally around processes, around enabling things that we’ve never been able to do before, either with our data or with things we’re trying to do internally.”
On technology and print: “We’re seeing a rebalancing or a readjustment in both schools and with parents at home, trying to rebalance maybe a little bit away from schools and technology.”
On the shift to analog: “We actually are pretty enthusiastic about a shift towards analog, a shift towards in person. About parents wanting those moments that matter and not feeling that those are going to be delivered by AI or delivered by technology and screens.”
More on the shift to analog: “We are seeing schools start to shift a little bit the same, shift away from technology, wanting more experience, physical manipulatives, print, particularly for young kids. I’m not talking high school. I’m talking kindergarten, first grade, second grade, pre-K.”
On the creation of content: “The fact that we have humans involved in every step, that human creators write the stories, human artists create the art, it’s actually going to be a moniker that we think consumers just want content created by humans for their children.”
On the good and bad of AI: “There’s some cool applications, maybe translations, accessibility, types of things that make content more accessible, but we’re not spending really much time at all thinking how does AI create our magazine content? Can it make the processes faster? Yes, but human content seems to be what our human customers want.”
On creating experiences with their audience: “When we mine all the customer feedback is that by creating emotional connections and authentic experiences, often with a child and an adult, but an experience that makes a child feel great, that’s engaging, that’s fun with a purpose, that an adult can look at and say, I want to be part of this, this is something I want to remember.”
On the role of partnerships in expanding the magazine reach: “So a lot of our partnerships are about bringing print into an experience that happens, but in a different setting than traditionally thought of a mailbox moment or a magazine delivery model through the postal system or a magazine newsstand experience. We’re trying to create the way, and Samir, you probably taught me this, like magazines have a relationship with their audience.”
More on the magazine reach: “It is a magazine that we’re handing out, but it’s not the traditional place or goal of a magazine.”
On the relationship with the magazine’s audience: “There’s a theme where parents and kids are gathering for a moment that’s going to matter to them. Can print and Highlights play a role customized to that moment, it’s some of the philosophy.”
On the role of the special partnership magazines: “It solidifies the memory and experience you had, that makes it more impactful in whatever the goal of that family was, so I think of a parent being like, hey, let’s look again.”
On print being a physical object: “I do think the permanence and concreteness of print to solidify and affect how those memories stay with you and the impact of those memories is kind of a cool way to think about print and physical.”
On the future of the business: “We continue to see a shift to younger in our business. So if you said, how are the core businesses going, core magazines performing? So Highlights Hello, for infants and toddlers is growing nicely.”
On the magazines audience: “So more and more, we see a model of customer engagement where they come in at the younger titles and then graduate up and stay healthy.”
On Highlights global markets: “Our global business, with some of the political disruption and with COVID, we intentionally brought our global business down.”
On his secret of the company’s success: “We’re trying to stay true to our core as a company; values, mission, and the experiences we create, but innovate in how we get that experience to happen. That has been the secret to the success we’ve had over the last few years.”
On the death of the long-time editor in chief Chris French Cully: “I feel grateful I worked with her and talked with her so much over two decades that I can keep her voice going. The other thing I would say is she would be so proud that the people she trained and knew are doing such an incredible job.”
On what keeps him up at night: “What keeps me up is worrying how all the things in our world are affecting the mental health or the psychology, the well-being of our teams and our people around us.”
And now for the lightly edited interview with Kent S. Johnson, CEO, Highlights for Children:
Samir Husni: Since you’re going to a shareholder’s and family meeting, can you give me the elevator pitch about the status of Highlights for Children, Inc.?
Kent S. Johnson: It’s having been through what seems like a cycle of oscillating disruption from the pandemic, putting people at home, inflation afterwards. The business has stabilized.
The teams at Highlights are really working well and working effectively. We’re coming off a good year of success in digital marketing and in retail sales and in building new partnerships. And some of the partnerships we’ll talk about today.
But we’re to report things are moving in the positive direction after what’s been a period of a lot of disruption and uncertainty. I think the uncertainty remains. But knock on wood, things are moving in the right direction.
And I’m excited to see magazine subscriptions up, see renewals at the highest rates we’ve ever seen in the history of the company. So while I’m not bullish because the world has so many curveballs to throw at us, I feel cautiously optimistic about where we are and where we’re headed.
Samir Husni: Any impact of AI in this disruption?
Kent S. Johnson: AI, it’s interesting. I’ll answer your question in two ways. I and many of us are really fascinated by what the tools can do internally around processes, around enabling things that we’ve never been able to do before, either with our data or with things we’re trying to do internally.
And it’s early days and the tools, their capabilities change very quickly. I think on the other side of things, we’re starting to see what, we don’t want to call it a backlash.
We’re seeing a rebalancing or a readjustment in both schools and with parents at home, trying to rebalance maybe a little bit away from schools and technology. I think some of it is fueled by AI, but some of it is fueled probably by larger trends of human connection. So we actually are pretty enthusiastic about a shift towards analog, a shift towards in person. About parents wanting those moments that matter and not feeling that those are going to be delivered by AI or delivered by technology and screens.
So for instance, children’s book sales year to date across the industry are up 10%. That number is almost never out of the low single digits. We’re seeing a consumer trend at point of sale.
Highlights, in at least one category, we’re up 50% point of sale year over year for highlights, books, branded books. And we are seeing schools start to shift a little bit the same, shift away from technology, wanting more experience, physical manipulatives, print, particularly for young kids. I’m not talking high school. I’m talking kindergarten, first grade, second grade, pre-K.
The other thing we’re seeing is parents are starting to ask us, is the content you create for kids created by humans or created by AI? The debate over whether AI can create good content for children is actually not a debate that is that important to Highlights, because we’re starting to see that the fact that we have humans involved in every step, that human creators write the stories, human artists create the art, it’s actually going to be a moniker that we think consumers just want content created by humans for their children. So we’re not spending a lot of time.
I think there’s some cool applications, maybe translations, accessibility, types of things that make content more accessible, but we’re not spending really much time at all thinking how does AI create our magazine content? Can it make the processes faster? Yes, but human content seems to be what our human customers want.
Samir Husni: Since you and I last spoke, you had all the challenges you mentioned but now you are back on a new level of creating print and linking Highlights with so many partners, which really was not part of the highlights process. Tell me a little bit about those partnerships, whether it is with the different counties in Florida, or with the U.S. Tennis Association Foundation, or even with the World Cup.
Kent S. Johnson: The way we’ve developed our approach to these partnerships, and there are a lot of different ones, but there are some commonalities. We tried to step back and say what is our core strength as an organization. We’re celebrating our 80th year in business this year, what are the ways, why do customers, parents and children, why do they like what we do? How have we built the trust and strength of the brand over 80 years?
That caused us to sort of step back from print, step back from magazines and think what we really see when we mine all the customer feedback is that by creating emotional connections and authentic experiences, often with a child and an adult, but an experience that makes a child feel great, that’s engaging, that’s fun with a purpose, that an adult can look at and say, I want to be part of this, this is something I want to remember. We sort of said that’s what we are more than a magazine format, and we realized that there’s incredible ways that people engage kids, and what we realized was anyone who was trying to engage a child or a parent in a way that created a lasting moment of deep engagement or real engagement, authentic engagement, we might be able to partner with.
So, a lot of our partnerships are about bringing print into an experience that happens, but in a different setting than traditionally thought of a mailbox moment or a magazine delivery model through the postal system or a magazine newsstand experience. We’re trying to create the way, and Samir, you probably taught me this, like magazines have a relationship with their audience.
How can we, if we posit that we want to continue to start new relationships, continue the existing relationships, where can we as a friend show up in surprise and delight? Often through print, so as an example, like where would you last think of a magazine being distributed? I don’t know, there’s a few examples of places we’ve gone, but for instance, you know, it’s on my mind now because I’m local and the World Cup’s over, so I get to turn my fandom to hockey, but to do a partnership with the Columbus Blue Jackets, with the Blue Jackets Foundation, that’s our NHL hockey team here in Ohio, where they had fan engagement goals, they have community engagement, literacy, they want to be part of our effort to help every kid pass the third grade reading guarantee, so to work with them and be able to create custom content, putting a team I love, putting the Columbus Blue Jackets and some of their players into puzzles and content, you’ve got it right there.
We build for them some custom content and then wrap it around a Highlights magazine, give it out at a game, and then put it in the hands of their players and their foundation when they visit schools and libraries, you know, to try to use the fandom that people have for the Blue Jackets to encourage literacy in those settings, and then also trying to use what the special sauce of Highlights is, let’s create this really neat content so that at a game, the kids and families can engage with the Blue Jackets players and organization in a different way.
It is a magazine that we’re handing out, but it’s not the traditional place or goal of a magazine. So similar on, what we did with the U.S. Tennis Association’s Foundation; in that case we created, think of it as a custom publishing relationship, we created a Highlights Fun with a Purpose tribute and engagement around Arthur Ash’s life to be given out at the U.S. Open. Obviously Arthur Ash’s huge connection with Ash, the stadium’s named after him, right. To be able to create that moment so that a family might visit that stand where they’re talking about Arthur Ash and his legacy but then take the magazine away and have that experience, extended their goals and put Fun with a Purpose and Arthur Ash and Highlights and the USTA Foundation in a takeaway for people. There’s a theme where parents and kids are gathering for a moment that’s going to matter to them. Can print and Highlights play a role customized to that moment, it’s some of the philosophy.
Samir Husni: You’re creating something permanent, my great-grandkids, 100 years from now, can pick up your copy and see it unchanged, in perfect shape. That permanency; from somebody who has a Ph.D. in Physics, how important is that permanency that print plays?
Kent S. Johnson: It’s both the permanency and concreteness. We know if we print half a million copies of something, like our Google partnership and put it out there, some of it is going to get recycled, some of it is going to get passed on, but some are going to be kept. We see this on eBay; the number of old Highlights magazines, that have been kept in attics, in basements, in people’s homes, and then relooked at, or passed on, or ultimately sold as a retro, a throwback. What I love is there’s a fan of the Blue Jackets in our community who’s got the magazine next to the hockey cards, the other giveaways and their t-shirts, so it becomes part of fandom and becomes something that someone wants to save, so I like the permanence.
I also like with print, even if the permanence is a week, you have an experience at a game or at the U.S. Open or at the circus, and maybe you look back three or four times over the next weeks or a month, and it solidifies the memory and experience you had, that makes it more impactful in whatever the goal of that family was, so I think of a parent being like, hey, let’s look again at the Ringling Brothers Highlights magazine, let’s remember how much fun that was last weekend, because now it’s raining and we’re not going out, now we’ll do the puzzles.
So I think permanence on multiple time scales and tangible, we’re all thrown, and when you go to live events, a concert, a game, you’re consuming images, there’s an experience, there’s an emotion, but when you leave, maybe your voice is hoarse from cheering if you’re a World Cup fan, a Spain fan, but the moment is the moment, and you have your memories. I do think the permanence and concreteness of print to solidify and affect how those memories stay with you and the impact of those memories is kind of a cool way to think about print and physical.
Samir Husni: Now you have five different regularly published magazines, and you’re doing partnerships with other publishers to do the bookazines.What’s next? If you and I are talking same time next year, what would you tell me you’ve accomplished in 26, 27?
Kent S. Johnson: It’s funny, I’d say to folks could we imagine a world where custom cover wraps, custom delivery, partnership delivery on the magazine format, how big could we imagine that would be?
Some of it gets really interesting when we think about the partnerships we can do in the space of early childhood education, literacy, community, and parent engagement in that space. As an example, we thought we were starting an early childhood materials and curriculum business, and what we found is there are a lot of needs across the early childhood spectrum where we can, by creating custom publishing, meet those needs. Again, it looks like magazines, but it might be something we’re creating for an organization to distribute in the community to help parents know about the resources available to them and their young children, to help encourage and recruit them to sign up for the state-guaranteed, state-funded preschool experiences.
Could imagine a preschool chain might want to engage with a co-branded magazine to the home or distributed through the school that brings the philosophy of that preschool’s curriculum to life connected with Highlights and Highlights High Five, and does that homeschool connection to create seamless connection on the learning that happens at home and in the classroom.
I see there’s a potential for a big, what is not in any traditional sense, a magazine business, but ultimately could look like a big magazine business through a diversified set of distribution, sometimes to the U.S. postal system, sometimes delivered in bulk. But I also, I keep saying, could that be bigger than some of our magazines? And then I say to the magazine folks, your job is to make sure our magazines are big enough that can’t catch you.
But, even, BrainPlay, which is a six times frequency, it’s surprisingly strong to me. And again, that may be some of this, maybe we’re overloaded with all the digital puzzles and apps, and we’re seeing a little bit of a rebalancing to print puzzles.
And maybe, you mentioned that as a physicist, I’m a believer that we don’t fully understand how all the critical thinking skills one needs for science, one needs for deep problem solving. We don’t fully know how all those develop at all the stages of brain development. And Highlights and I personally believe that solving puzzles and all different varieties of puzzles as a young child is fueling a kind of brain development that’s maybe not as much on the tests we give to young kids.
So I’m enthusiastic about puzzles and BrainPlay as well. Whatever the distribution, whether that’s going to schools to be used in a math class, or in summer school, or it’s going as a periodical to the home. I’m excited about that.
Samir Husni: If you will give me a one second answer to the status of each magazine, Highlights, High Five, Hello, Cocomelon, and BrainPlay.
Kent S. Johnson: At Highlights, we think about our magazine business in aggregate.
Because for our core magazines, many of our customers think about, I’m getting Highlights magazine, and I get the different versions. We continue to see a shift to younger in our business. So, if you said, how are the core businesses going, core magazines performing? So, Highlights Hello, for infants and toddlers is growing nicely.
High Five, has higher penetration, our largest title, is growing but not as fast as Hello. And Highlights, year to date, might be down signal digits or flat. More and more, we see a model of customer engagement where they come in at the younger titles and then graduate up and stay healthy.
BrainPlay, of course, smaller than the others as a 6X and narrow age range, but it’s been growing nicely. Cocomelon, we’re not seeing quite as much pickup as we expected. It does compete in our book bag with Hello.
We’re still trying to figure out what is the customer communication around these two titles in similar age ranges. And Bilingue, it’s up this year. It’s a smaller title. We’re still learning about ways to access the dual language markets. It may be used more in preschools than in home settings. Trying to unlock some of what we know is the continued demographic shift around what should be our suite of bilingual or Spanish language products.
Samir Husni: Where are you now worldwide with your global editions?
Kent S. Johnson: Our global business, with some of the political disruption and with COVID, we intentionally brought our global business down.
We have a joint venture, co-branded title in India. But most of our business outside the United States is not magazine format. It’s a content licensing business, partnership business around English language learning, licensing into technology platforms, curriculum content, licensing into retail products, retail learning products.
For the most part, our global business has been stable and healthy, but smaller than it was pre-pandemic. It’s really a content licensing, English language learning, publishing business, rather than what is traditional, like global magazines, which is typically ad driven. Our partners have used different models to reach their end users with our content and brand.
Samir Husni: Before I ask you my typical personal questions, is there any question that I needed to ask you I did not?
Kent S. Johnson: No, this is good. We’re trying to find innovative ways to create that experience in new ways. So, what’s the secret? We’re trying to stay true to our core as a company; values, mission, and the experiences we create, but innovate in how we get that experience to happen. That has been the secret to the success we’ve had over the last few years.
Samir Husni: Three final questions.Number one, as much as I hate to bring this up, but you have lost an editor who was at Highlights for 30 plus years. Any words of tribute about Chris French Cully?
Kent S. Johnson: I didn’t expect that question. In 2025, we lost our editor in chief, our chief purpose officer, probably the human in the work context that I was closest to for my 20 years of tenure.
We feel that loss. I feel like I still have an ongoing dialogue with Chris. So it sounds crazy to say she is gone. We’ve gone through grief and we miss her. But I also feel like her voice is still in my head. And I feel grateful I worked with her and talked with her so much over two decades that I can keep her voice going.
The other thing I would say is she would be so proud that the people she trained and knew are doing such an incredible job. One of the things she really talked about is she wanted her legacy to be how she helped the editorial team develop their taste, their skill, their judgment. And if I had to give one tribute to her, she would be so proud looking down at the team she trained and how well they’re doing.
Samir Husni: Thank you. And if I come to visit you while you’re not preparing for the shareholders and board meeting, what do I catch Kent doing these days? Watching TV, reading a book?
Kent S. Johnson: I’m reading more and enjoying that. I’ve just got a Peloton bike.
As I’ve progressed in my career, the importance of staying physically fit has become increased. So, you might find me exercising. I’m trying to mix in some fiction; I’m a nonfiction guy. Right now, I’m in the middle of a book revisiting the history of the Schuyler sisters through their lens, not through Hamilton and the others. I love history, nonfiction, and going to hockey games.
Samir Husni: My typical last question, what keeps you up at night these days?
Kent S. Johnson: I feel like almost everything keeps me up at night.
Our world is so full of division and challenges, and the pace of change is increasing. What keeps me up is less those changes because I have a deep optimism that we can handle it. What keeps me up is worrying how all the things in our world are affecting the mental health or the psychology, the well-being of our teams and our people around us.
We just need a little less tension so that people can focus on doing good work together. So that’s what’s keeping me up is worrying about the impact of the ongoing environment on people.
Samir Husni: Thank you very much and good luck at the board meeting.
Ron Notarangelo is recreating the love of storytelling and experience making that his mom instilled in him at a very young age. She used to buy and read him books from the 1950s. That love of the books of the 1950s led him, and his wife Marie, to create Trad Hunters magazine that reflects that era but is done in a very suitable and readable 2026 style and form.
The magazine was born from a conversation in their kitchen that took two years to come to fruition. What came out from that idea is marvelous content and an experience for anyone interested in traditional hunting or is curious about it.
I had the chance to correspond with Ron and Marie and was very impressed by their handwritten personal notes they took the time to write in response to my questions. Later I discovered I was not alone in that treatment. They take the time to write personal notes to each and every customer. I guess that is the tradition of Trad Hunters.
While both are identified as creators of the magazine, Ron is the publisher and Marie is the editor. I had the pleasure of talking with Ron for this interview and what follows is the lightly edited transcript of the interview.
But first the soundbites:
On why print: “Being a retro looking magazine, it needed to be print, for one. Also, a lot of the customers who are bow hunters and stuff, they’re older. The demographic is typically like 44 to 65 plus.”
On why they reprinted the first issue: “When we launched, we just did a lot of the writing ourselves and had a couple good friends who would contribute their articles, which helped a lot. So, we added some new content, and we added new art and we just really wanted to make it match what we’re doing now.”
On the personal handwritten notes: “We do a handwritten note for everyone, every single one. So, it takes a bit of time, but before doing the magazine, we had an archery accessory business. And we would do that with our customers too.”
On the magazine’s elevator pitch: “It’s a gritty, no-holds-bar type of traditional hunting magazine that covers traditional bow hunting.”
More on the elevator pitch: “It’s gritty stories that are not censored about hunts from real people, not just celebrities, that take you on adventures across the world. Each volume is dedicated to a specific theme. So, Volume 1 is Alaska. Everything is all about Alaska. Volume 2 is about High Country.”
On the mission of the magazine: “I’m just looking at it like we got something incredible to deliver that’s going to entertain you, teach you with legitimate things that you can use in the real world if you’re choosing to hunt or even survive in the wilderness.”
On the look of the magazine: “Wouldn’t it be cool if there was a magazine that looked like it was from that era, (the 1950s), now, but with focus on cool stories like Boy Scout tips, how to do wilderness things, survival stuff, like that, but look like it’s old, I think that would be really cool.”
On the magazine revenues: “But right off the bat, we did a patron thing where people can help support us even more. So, we changed everything right off the bat, the norms, and even advertising, we didn’t even have advertising. We’re not even doing any advertising going forward.”
On their goal: “We’re both thinking about making a better life for us and offer the best possible product and experience for anyone that wants to read Trad Hunters or is curious about it.”
And now for the lightly edited interview with Ron Notarangelo, co-creator and publisher Trad Hunters magazine:
Samir Husni: You’ve launched Trad Hunters one year ago. Did you feel that you needed a traditional platform for a traditional hobby or profession?
Ron Notarangelo: Traditional meaning like in print, right?
I think because of the nature of what we wanted to do with it, being a retro looking magazine, it needed to be print, for one. Also, a lot of the customers who are bow hunters and stuff, they’re older. The demographic is typically like 44 to 65 plus.
So, they prefer reading a physical book rather than something digital. That was only after the fact that we found that out. Our intention was to make it look like a retro style magazine from the beginning.
Samir Husni: In the one year since you started the magazine, what was the reaction so far?
Ron Notarangelo: So far, it’s been incredible. I think one of the challenges that we had was coming up with a price because we didn’t really know how many we needed to print initially.
We guessed and we did a perfect bound magazine, and not saddle stitched, which is a lot more expensive. We chose to do things that really were quality rather than just a traditional magazine. The paper quality we chose is significantly different than regular magazines.
So, that’s even more expensive. But we knew we wanted to make it like that. One of the challenges was figuring out how do we charge, a price that is high enough to cover our costs because we did not know how many to print.
We printed 750 and it costs quite a bit. We also needed to position it where the psychology of people is used to buying magazines, not books. They do buy books, but they will subscribe to magazines over books. So, we needed to use the magazine even though it’s more like a book.
Samir Husni: And you reprinted the first issue.Can you tell me more a little bit about that?
Ron Notarangelo: The very first one that we launched, we had a printer who printed the magazine digitally.
From the second one on we had everything printed on an offset press. So, it was a completely different type of way of printing.
The look is completely different. So, we sold out of the first issue, we printed 750 and then we had another thousand printed of the first one. And then when we sold out, we just started to market number two.
We had a lot of people come back and say, hey, I want to get the first issue, I want to start from the beginning. We didn’t expect to reprint volume one. We were just like let’s just sell it and then we’ll just move on.
We had such an overwhelming amount of people ask that they want to start from the beginning. So, we decided if we’re going to remake it, we might as well because the first one was even a little bit smaller than the ones we print now. It was five and a half by eight and a half inches.
Now, we’ve made it a touch bigger. It’s six inches by nine inches. So, we decided to reprint it so that it’s all consistent six by nine. And we figured let’s just add more stories in it. And when we launched, we just did a lot of the writing ourselves and had a couple good friends who would contribute their articles, which helped a lot. So, we added some new content, and we added new art and we just really wanted to make it match what we’re doing now.
Samir Husni: You take the time to respond to any request to buy the magazine or to order the magazine with a personal handwritten note?
Ron Notarangelo: We do a handwritten note for everyone, every single one. So, it takes a bit of time, but before doing the magazine, we had an archery accessory business. And we would do that with our customers too.
That was something that we brought over to the magazine because we want to show our gratitude and our appreciation for someone taking the time to invest in what we made. And so, we feel it’s a good thing to do to show our respect to the people who buy it.
Samir Husni: Can you give me like the elevator pitch for Trad Hunters?
Ron Notarangelo: The elevator pitch? It’s a gritty, no-holds-bar type of traditional hunting magazine that covers traditional bow hunting.
It can cover different types of traditional hunting. It’s gritty stories that are not censored about hunts from real people, not just celebrities, that take you on adventures across the world. Each volume is dedicated to a specific theme.
So, Volume 1 is Alaska. Everything is all about Alaska. Volume 2 is about High Country. Everything is about high country. And everything is made to look like it’s a vintage 1950s style to complement that. Back in those days, it was all about adventure. It’s not about being censored.
It was really embodied more wholesome times. So, that’s exactly what we deliver with Trad Hunters.
Samir Husni: And during this year, has it been a walk in the rose garden or you had some challenges?
Ron Notarangelo: Oh, we’ve had some challenges.
Because we’re based in Canada. Just a couple weeks before we launched the first magazine, the tariffs kicked in. But thankfully, publications are not a part of that.
It’s a part of the treaty so that publications like schoolbooks or books in general are not affected or are taxed. Thankfully. There are challenges now that the oil and gas situation has caused things to go up. Obviously, people are considering saving money somehow. But I’m not even going to look at that anymore.
I’m looking at it like we got something incredible to deliver that’s going to entertain you, teach you with like legitimate things that you can use in the real world if you’re choosing to hunt or even survive in the wilderness. It’s only $20 and it’s worth every single penny or more for what we’re trying to deliver. I’m not even concerned about it. There’s always challenges, I’m looking past that now.
I’m thinking about the value we’re going to deliver to people every single time that they choose to buy a Trad Hunters magazine. That’s all I’m focused on now.
Samir Husni: What gave you the idea? I know you had an archery accessory business, but what gave you the idea to create a magazine?
Ron Notarangelo: The idea was born in the kitchen with my wife.
When I was growing up, my mother would always go to the garage sales, and she would buy old Boy Scout and story books from the 1950s and read it to the read it to us when we were kids.
So, like, that type of look, and those adventure stories are always a part of something that I personally grew up with. I just had this idea flashing in my head when I was just talking to my wife, because I do a lot of the illustrations myself. I was experimenting with illustrating, a kind of a vintage style.
I just had this idea, wouldn’t it be cool if there was a magazine that looked like it was from that era, now, but with focus on cool stories like Boy Scout tips, how to do wilderness things, survival stuff, like that, but look like it’s old, I think that would be really cool. My wife was, yeah, that would be awesome. So, it was just an idea for almost two years.
I started talking to a friend who was a contributing writer in the first one. And he was like, yeah, this would be awesome, because he’s really involved in the bow hunting community. He said that this would be incredible.
I started kind of loosely developing it. And then when, when the Tard Hunters magazine happened, we had to shut down our other business, that day. We had to do the magazine; it had to work. We had to survive. And I knew it was either now or never, whether it’s possible, we’ll find out right now. So, the decision was made and we’re going to do it. That’s how it happened.
Samir Husni: If you and I are having this conversation in a year from now, what would you tell me that Trad Hunters accomplished in 26, 27?
Ron Notarangelo: We expanded globally; we grew our readers by 10,000.
We didn’t give up, we persisted, we advanced, we broke a lot of molds, it was very common for it to be seasonal, especially with hunting, we did not do seasonal, we did themes. It was very common for a magazine to be the traditional 81/2 by 11, the standard size, we went smaller. We did publish quarterly rather than monthly because the printing cost is very high.
But right off the bat, we did a patron thing where people can help support us even more. So, we changed everything right off the bat, the norms, and even advertising, we didn’t even have advertising. We’re not even doing any advertising going forward. So, in 2027, you’ll see Trad Hunters magazine not have any advertising, we’re going to be everywhere globally. And we’re going to go to the top.
So that’s where we’re going. 2027. And we’ll have we’ll have more volumes by then, too, obviously.
Samir Husni: Tell me before I ask you my typical personal questions, is there any question I failed to ask you about the magazine that you would like me to ask?
Ron Notarangelo: I don’t know. I think we covered a lot of the basic stuff.
Samir Husni: Are you a hunter?
Ron Notarangelo: I don’t get to hunt as much now because this magazine takes a lot of time.
One of the things that if you were to ask me in a year from now, what’s different is that we have more artists doing the work for us. I have hired people to do some of the graphic design because I had to do it up until now. Right now, the volume that I’m working on, I’m the one doing all the creative design. I must do all the InDesign work.
And I didn’t even know how to do InDesign before volume one, I had to remake volume one four times in two weeks to get it to the printer. I started to design it in Canvas. I had no idea even how to make a magazine.
I had to learn InDesign in a week. I’m going to pass this stuff off to someone who’s far better than me. And I’m going to stay focused on the direction where we want to go.
Keeping the look like the 50s in 2026. That’s the standard. It’s going to evolve. Everything does evolve over time. The winning combination is that vintage look, that colored paper, that makes it look vintage. We try our best, we’re not going to add in fake wrinkles and stuff, but we want it to look different. So that’s always going to be the same. It seems to be very desirable.
Samir Husni: If I come one evening unannounced to visit you at home, what would I catch Ron doing? Having a glass of wine, watching TV, reading a book, etc.?
Ron Notarangelo: It depends on the time of day.
I’ve been reading a lot more now. I’ve been taking the time to get back into reading physical books.
I got my copy of The Science of Getting Richright here. It’s just mindset stuff I’m working on right now. If you were to come in the evening, I would be hanging with my kids watching some TV with them or playing with them.
Anytime during the day, prior to what I just said, I would be in my office illustrating or working in InDesign. Plus, I got to do all the marketing stuff now. I’d be on a computer.
Samir Husni: What keeps Ron up at night these days?
Ron Notarangelo: Samir, it’s a tough question. I mean, there’s been a lot happening in the last couple weeks with my family, just a lot of personal family stuff keep me up.
Getting this magazine out, fulfilling orders to customers, making sure that we’re timely making the magazine, there’s so many things that I must do, and my wife has to do because she’s equally doing everything that I’m doing. We’re both thinking about making a better life for us and offer the best possible product and experience for anyone that wants to read Trad Hunters or is curious about it.
Those who know me, they know that my entire career and profession started at age 10 when the first issue of the Arabic Superman was published in my original home country Lebanon in February of 1964. It was the beginning of a love affair with storytelling, heroes and villains, ink on paper, comics and magazines. 63 years later that love affair continues with no let down or a break.
This love affair left a soft spot in my heart for comics until this day. So, when I heard about the launch of Comics! The Magazine I felt that all my dreams have come true, comics, magazines, and ink on paper. Mr. Magazine™ could not ask for any better. I acquired every issue since its launch earlier this year and three of the secret variant covers of issues 1, 2, and 4 at a price that will go unmentioned for fear in getting in trouble with the family.
My affair did not end there, I needed to know the folks behind the magazine and why someone will publish such a great magazine in this digital age? I reached out to Joe Keatinge, the editor-in-chief of the magazine and Atom! Freeman, the publisher and had one of most delightful interviews in my career. It brought back memories of a pleasant childhood and a firm belief in the future of magazines, as in ink on paper.
So, without any further ado, please enjoy those two lightly edited interviews with the editor-in-chief and the publisher of Comics! The Magazine:
But first the soundbites of the interview with Joe Keatinge, editor-in-chief, Comics! The Magazine:
On the need for Comics! The Magazine: “It’s time that there’s a platform for comics that speaks to that level of enthusiasm is the operative word, but also confidence too.”
On the intended audience: “The younger generation is tired of the Internet. I don’t know how close you follow print sales in the comics industry, stores are reporting up to 30 to 40 percent year over year. And that last year was 20 to 30 percent. The people coming in are like 20 years old.”
On the secret variant covers: “There’s a secret cover program and we don’t do it every issue. We like to keep people on their toes.”
On his mission for the magazine: “My mission, personally, with the magazine, again, is what I said earlier: Is to get people enthusiastic about comics. And so with the variant covers, it’s great. They’re selling high.”
On the connectivity between human and paper: “So when you’re a kid and you’re reading Superman, and it’s on paper, and it’s yours, and it’s in your hand, and you’re reading the story, I would assume that there’s a higher level of connection there.”
On the magazine’s goal: “To be of greater service to this industry and become an essential part about how people learn about comics.”
On his future vision for the magazine: “Is that we help inspire people to make great comics. And read great comics, of course. I want people to read it and think, I could do that. Then, they think they can do that and they work really hard and talk about the fight we mentioned earlier. It doesn’t work out. And then it does work out. They keep going and they keep getting better and better and better. And one day, they’re so good, they’re so undeniable, we profile them on the cover.”
On how people decide to buy a comic book: “Atom! (the publisher) did some research a while ago and found that 82% of customers, at comic bookstores, made decisions of what to buy in the store.”
And now the soundbites of the interview with Atom! Freeman, publisher, Comics! The Magazine:
On the magazines mission: “From a business standpoint, it is a platform. From a consumer standpoint, it is just a celebration and a guide for the world of comics.”
On a major challenge: “But print advertising budgets are not something they’ve been doing for a while. Convincing them to make that room or to take away from something else in order to get involved early, that was a challenge early on.”
On another major challenge: “But as a result of that, really our biggest challenge right now is what do we do next? How do we keep the magazine itself exciting? How do we build off of the success of the magazine? Those are the bigger questions that Joe and I spend a lot of time talking about.”
On the high selling price of variant covers: “It takes a lot to really surprise me. I was pleasantly taken aback by the values.”
On the magazine’s digital future: “While we’ve discussed what it would look like to make Comics! The Magazine digital, I think that so far, everything we’ve heard would just be diminishing of the print version.”
On the value of print: “We’re able to have more complex conversations because you’re going to sit and digest it in a way that you don’t, anything that’s on a screen.”
On the future of magazines: “I do think that magazines are going to have a comeback. What we’re seeing in print in comics and magazine right now, I expect to see all over the place.”
More on the value of print: “One of the things that happens in our world is any comic that is on a digital platform ends up on a piracy site. And Comics! The Magazine is on no piracy sites right now.”
And now for the lightly edited interviews with Joe Keatinge, editor-in-chief and Atom! Freeman, publisher, Comics! The Magazine:
Samir Husni: My first question to you is, you said in your last editorial, I love fighters. I love people with vision. Tell me about your fight and your vision with Comics! the Magazine.
Joe Keatinge: Sure. I really appreciate that. I would say the fight or the mission with the magazine is really simple. It’s just to get people genuinely enthusiastic about comics, and that can be genuinely enthusiastic about reading comics.
There’s enough in the world about how everything’s horrible, and that’s just not what we do here.
We are celebrating this art form to the highest degree. Bringing in people that have same sort of mentality, different voices, of course. It’s to spread that genuine enthusiasm for the art form.
Art form that’s fueling not just comics, but television and film and video games. It’s time that there’s a platform for comics that speaks to that level of enthusiasm is the operative word, but also confidence too.
Samir Husni: Why did you decide to do it in print in this digital age?
Joe Keatinge: That’s a great question. It’s something we talked about a lot. It’s because there’s so much digital’s gotten through so much noise. If I live a busy life and I have 10 minutes to determine what comics are out there, you go online and you search comics, there’s a lot of different sources.
A lot of them are skewing negative. So there’s that. The other aspect of it is there’s a new generation coming in and they want physical media.
The younger generation is tired of the Internet. I don’t know how close you follow print sales in the comics industry, stores are reporting up to 30 to 40 percent year over year. And that last year was 20 to 30 percent.
The people coming in are like 20 years old. And it’s two things. One is they’re raised on comics.
They were raised on comics by people like Raina Telgemeier or Jeff Smith or Dave Pelkey. They went in their teen years and they got manga from libraries. Now thanks to there’s a book called Absolute Batman, which is The Book.
It’s the top book in the industry by a huge margin. That’s the new readership. These people who were kids 10 years ago, but now they’re 20 and they have disposable income are interested in this. So they have that education with comics, but also they saw the fruit of the generation that is so digitally focused and living lives online and consuming digital media.
I’m not against the Internet. I mean, that’s how you and I are talking.
There’s a huge great net benefit to it. But you got to be careful in terms of how much you like moderation, essentially.
So I think people really want things like this is 32 pages. It’s now going to be 40 pages. We’re increasing the page count by signature.
You can read it in 10, 15 minutes, maybe 20 minutes, maybe a little longer, depending on the issue. You can know everything you need to know to go to the comic bookstore.
Samir Husni: I noticed that with some issues, you have two different covers.You have a regular cover and you have a variant cover, which is selling for up to like 150 dollars on eBay.
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Joe Keatinge: We’re experimenting a lot because it’s been a while since there’s been a comics magazine. We’re not the only one. There are other ones.
There’s one called Dummy and there’s one called American Nature. There’s one kind of a comic staple. So, we’re not the only one, but we’re the only one doing it our way.
Part of that is what can we do in print? That’s fun and unexpected. You can’t do in digital.
We were at a comic book trade show, Comics Pro, and coincidentally, it was when we got our first issue comps. We did an early edition of the first issue. An Absolute Batman cover.
I was sitting there and I knew that we did bundles of about 25. And I was thinking you could put anything in these bundles. Because, when the stores receive the bundles, they just have to scan in the initial receiving the UPC of the bundle itself. And then the individual UPCs of the covers so that we can sneak in something really cool. And so I contacted Skybound, the company that created Invincible and The Walking Dead. They do surprise better than anybody else in the industry right now. I knew they would get it. I contacted them and said you got this great book called Terminal coming out. Robert Kirkman, Joe Casey, Art Adams, Dave Finch, Andy Kubert, like all- star team. I was like, what if because we were already planning to do a Battle Beast cover with them, what if we did a secret Terminal cover? We don’t announce it. And it gets in there. And then that sold really well. Then we just did a cover. So, we did a feature in the new issue with Mark Spears, the artist behind a series called Monster Monsters. He is doing a new Spawn book. Spawn, one of the most popular comics in the last 30 years. He actually suggested it. I’ll give Mark full credit.
He suggested what if we do a secret Spawn cover? I thought that would light the world on fire. If Todd McFarlane would approve it, that’d be great. And he did.
There’s a secret cover program and we don’t do it every issue. We like to keep people on their toes.
We also do variant covers with different partners. Sometimes it’s a store. We’ll want to do a variant cover with an artist whom we have relationship with.
With number five, we’re doing covers with Alex Ross. So we have an Alex Ross interview in there. The opportunity came because of that interview. To do a variant cover with him that he will be given out at his booth at San Diego Comic Con. Mad Cave Studios, another publisher. They’re doing a similar thing.
They have a book coming out with John Cusack, the actor. And again, they thought, hey, can we do a variant cover of this? We don’t do pay to play. As the editor, I don’t care what advertisers we have.
It doesn’t affect in terms of content. Obviously, we love our advertisers, and they make the magazine possible. But in terms of content, it’s what’s interesting, period.
If it’s not interesting, they can’t pay enough money to be in there. But it just worked out. Alex Ross is one of the greatest artists of all time.
I’d want to talk to him. And then this opportunity came to do the cover. Great. Same with John Cusack. That’s interesting. He wants to make comics.
Why? If there was a compelling story there, and there was, great. So any opportunity to do something interesting in print.
I think you’ll appreciate this. It feels like there is a re-education going on. Which is funny, because we work in a print industry.
But in terms of having a promotional venture in print, there’s a lot of re-education. And a lot of like, you can do things differently than you were doing them digitally. Actually, I will even go further and say, a level of freedom.
This is going off on a tangent here. We serialized a comic book called Chew. Chew was by Rob Guillory and John Layman.
One of the major hits of the 2010s. And we were talking with them about doing a new comic. And they agreed to do a new Chew, which is a big deal.
And at first, it starts off as, from the get-go, now that I think about it. They have been doing things you really can only do, storytelling-wise. Because it’s a single page every issue, is Chew.
Just one page. The things that they were storytelling are so interesting. Like the first ever edition looked like it was just an ad.
Then in the second issue, well it turns out that ad is part of the story. Why is it? What’s going on there? And then John Layman, the writer, just sent me scripts for issues 9 and 10. And he is doing, again, it only makes sense in print.
The advertisers really get it. We work with a company, one of their advertisers is a company called Oni Press. And they run ads for, it looks like it’s an ad for another product.
Like a liquor ad that takes place in the world of the comic. It only makes sense. It only makes sense in print. If you ran it online, it wouldn’t work as well. They really understood how we can utilize print to tell a different story than we would be able to if it was just like an Instagram ad even.
Samir Husni: What do you think about those variant covers demanding high prices on eBay and are selling much, much more than the regular $2.99 cover price of the magazine?
Joe Keatinge: Well, you have to understand the perspective of the person you’re asking.
Because I’m the editor-in-chief, right? And so, you might get a different answer from our publisher. You might get a different answer from the ad sales guy. My mission, personally, with the magazine, again, is what I said earlier.
Is to get people enthusiastic about comics. And so with the variant covers, it’s great. They’re selling high. It seems like higher every time we do it. But to me, what that metric really… Because that’s data, right? And the data, to me, says people are excited about this. People want… We put the variant covers out in the marketplace and the marketplace dictated the value of it.
And the value of especially that Spawn cover is, again, upwards of $130. We did a giveaway. We gave it away for free at a convention. A number zero issue. That was something we handed out. And now it goes for $80 to $100. You know what I mean?
What I love about your story is you were a kid when you first saw that Superman. It was this relationship between reader and the magazine. There was nothing else in that world. There was nothing else distracting you. But I assume that there’s ads in there, you know. But otherwise, it’s the experience between reader and story. There’s no other noise.
There’s a lot of great digital ventures. I’m not discounting them. Like, obviously, Webtoon. Webcomics in general have been going strong.
A lot of the comics I cited earlier, like Raina Telgemeier’s work and a lot of her contemporaries had webcomics. But there’s just something about the relationship between the reader and print.
It may be biological as well. I read a report a long time ago about the data retention you have reading print versus digital. This is purely hypothetical. I don’t know this for sure. But I wonder, too, when you’re reading a fictional story, if there’s a level of empathy you have when you read print versus digital. So, when you’re a kid and you’re reading Superman, and it’s on paper, and it’s yours, and it’s in your hand, and you’re reading the story, I would assume that there’s a higher level of connection there.
Samir Husni: I noticed in some of the issues you have DC on the cover, and some issues you don’t have DC on the cover. So how do you that?
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Joe Keatinge: That’s part of the arrangement we have when we utilize their covers and characters. You know, DC is not the publisher of the magazine.
But it’s just how they protect their copyright of their characters. As simple as that. It’s just like other licenses they do; it’s the same arrangement.
Samir Husni: If you and I are having this discussion a year from now, what would you tell me Joe accomplished in this year, in 26 – 27?
Joe Keatinge: That’s an excellent question. I just want to be of service to this industry, you know, and I think I can speak for myself and my business partners, Atom! Freeman, Rico Renzi, and Gabe Yocum.
We’ve got a good team. And I do feel that we’re all unified. Atom! did some research a while ago and found that 82% of customers, at comic bookstores, made decisions of what to buy in the store. Not influenced by the internet, not influenced by anything else. And that’s why Comics! The Magazine, at this current state, is exclusively through comic bookstores. Because it’s there. and that’s where you’re making your decisions, we want to be there. To me, if you ask the publisher the question, his answer may be different. But for me, it is just to be of greater service to this industry and become an essential part about how people learn about comics. It’s not just reading comics. It’s not just sales to me. That’s an aspect that’s important.
But my real dream with this magazine, beyond 2027, is that somebody reads it and they read about whoever we’re profiling. Che Grayson, Scott Snyder, Mark Spears, or Alex Ross and they read it and he and she are like, you know what? I can make comics. This is just a person. That’s one thing that’s really important to me with the magazine, is the how and the why. Who, what, where, when, why.
All those questions. How and why interests me the most. In part, because I want people to read it and think, I could do that.
Then, they think they can do that and they work really hard and talk about the fight we mentioned earlier. It doesn’t work out. And then it does work out.
They keep going and they keep getting better and better and better. And one day, they’re so good, they’re so undeniable, we profile them on the cover. That’s the dream for me. Is that we help inspire people to make great comics. And read great comics, of course.
Samir Husni: Before I ask you my typical questions at the end, is there any question that I failed to ask you I should ask you about Comics! The Magazine?
Joe Keatinge: I mean, honestly, you’re doing great. Your insight is wonderful. So, I’m really grateful for the opportunity.
Samir Husni: Joe, tell me how did you get involved with comics in general?
Joe Keatinge: Oh, boy. Nobody really knows. Comics have just always been around. I am a child of the 80s. And comics were at 7-Eleven. Comics were at Toys R Us. Comics were everywhere. Comics were at newsstands. I think it was probably pack-ins with action figures. There was the Masters of the Universe had comics.
I believe Transformers had comics as well. G.I. Joe, maybe. But Masters of the Universe definitely did.
I had those toys around. So, I would guess that that’s how I was first exposed. However, I will say what made me really love comics were comic bookstores.
I was blessed enough to be surrounded by some of the greatest stores of all time. Like, Santa Monica, California, where I was frequently at. There was a store, unfortunately, no longer there. There was a store called Hi De Ho Comics. If you research the history of Hi De Ho, and I really hope someone writes an extensive history of Hi De Ho, I’d run it in the magazine. You know, it was a comic store where so many people came through.
And they had everything. And it was kind of a mess from what I remember. It wasn’t very, in terms of the organization, Rob Liefeld comics were next to Mobius, which was next to Hugo Pratt, which was next to Manga, which was next to Underground Comics. It was all just there. I remember the first time I ever saw Wizard was there.
I was just like, what is this? Why is Spider-Man wearing a, like a wizard hat? What is this? Everything was so wonderful and strange. Because it was just like Matt Groening, I discovered around the same time, pre-Simpsons, when it was Life and Hell ran in the newspapers. And then they had the Pantheon reprints there.
And it was just this wonderful assortment of work. And that’s really influenced my brain.
It also really influences the magazine. Because I don’t distinguish, people are like are you going to cover Manga at all? Are you going to cover Webtoons? You’re going to cover, it’s all comics. It’s all lines on paper.
A lot of the early issues obviously are influenced by what I’m, what I’m aware of and everything. But, again, talk about what I want in 26 – 27. I want there to be a larger scope to what we cover. I know I have blinders on. And I know there’s so much, I was talking to one of our frequent contributors. Well, he did the thing in number one.
He’s doing another thing in number 10. He’s interviewed in number six. It’s Jim Rugg.
And, you know, great guy. He wrote, he was one of the guys behind Cartoonist Kayfabe, which is really instrumental in building an audience. And he was saying after that Comics Pro conference I mentioned earlier, he realized there are more channels than ever to sell comics in.
Atom! Freeman, the publisher, joins our conversation…
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Joe Keatimge: We’re just talking comics here. I was going to say what Jim Rugg was mentioning that there’s more channels than ever. And he also estimates that there are more creators working in comics right now than there ever has been, including the golden age, so to speak. I’m assuming there’s stuff I’m not aware of.
Samir Husni: My typical last questions are, one, if I come to visit you one evening at your house unannounced, what do I catch you doing? Reading a comic? Watching TV? On your computer having a glass of wine?
Joe Keatinge: I live a very private life. I’ll say that. I don’t talk about my personal life openly. But I may be fly fishing. I may not be home.
Samir Husni: And what keeps you up at night?
Joe Keatinge: That’s an excellent question. That might be my favorite question you’ve asked. Providing for my family.
And now for the lightly edited interview with Atom! Freeman, publisher of Comic! The Magazine:
Samir Husni: Tell me, from a business point of view, what’s the mission of Comics! The Magazine?
Atom! Freeman:Comics! The Magazine is designed to celebrate the world of comics. It’s designed to give somebody who is new to comics, maybe they just picked up their first Superman comic and they are trying to figure out what this world is.
It’s an entree into a world that Joe and I speak natively. I would say that from a marketing business side, it is a platform upon which marketers and advertisers and promoters can use to launch new properties into the world of comics. The world of comics is very open to new ideas.
It’s a wonderful place to build IP. We’re seeing companies that do multiple TV series, multiple video games. They have tons and tons of properties and projects that are going in other multimedia and making tens of millions of dollars there still launch all of their properties inside a world of comics.
The problem that we saw as marketers was how do we get in front of that audience? Because nothing that was happening on the internet was doing it in this way that magazines used to. There were many of us behind the scenes who were thinking, boy, we really just need a magazine. Eventually, Joe and I ran out of excuses for why not to make one.
We had to do it. I think from a business standpoint, it is a platform. From a consumer standpoint, it is just a celebration and a guide for the world of comics.
Samir Husni: Since issue Zero, has it been a walk in a rose garden or did you have some challenges? How did you overcome them?
Atom! Freeman: Wide open field, Samir. Wide open. We’re just one step in front of the next.
I will say the biggest challenge from a business side was convincing companies that really do need a platform like Comics! The Magazine, that a print advertising budget is something they needed to make room for. They all have advertising budgets. They all have marketing budgets.
But print advertising budgets are not something they’ve been doing for a while. Convincing them to make that room or to take away from something else in order to get involved early, that was a challenge early on. Now I will say that our challenge really is just where do we grow to? We are the best-selling magazine about comics in our space.
There are a few others. They are with different focuses and different mission statements.
But as a result of that, really our biggest challenge right now is what do we do next? How do we keep the magazine itself exciting? How do we build off of the success of the magazine? Those are the bigger questions that Joe and I spend a lot of time talking about.
Samir Husni: Were you surprised when you saw the value of the variant covers selling on eBay for $150 and $80?
Atom! Freeman: Listen, it takes a lot. I’ve been at this now for, I don’t know, 30 years, Samir.
I’ve been in this industry. It takes a lot to really surprise me. I was pleasantly taken aback by the values.
But we know the value of a secret, the value of a surprise. That’s the real challenge. That’s why we come to fiction.
That’s why we come to story, is we want to be surprised. And so we know now occasionally do, like I will say, the Spawn one I really thought was going to, I didn’t know if it was going to do as well as it did. And we have a couple more that are coming up, a couple other surprises that are coming up that I think are going to have a similar effect.
But you never know. Where the market decides those values land, that’s always a surprise, no matter what you do.
Samir Husni: Do you think this can only be done in print?
Atom! Freeman: So far, yeah, so far.
Magazines, books and movies, TV, all of them really did lend themselves to the shift to digital. I don’t know about you, but I don’t even have cable TV or broadcast TV in my home anymore. I only stream.
I do still buy physical books, but I’m just as likely to read them as a Kindle app on my phone, right? Audiobooks are more likely what I consume the most. I will say that of those other platforms, comics really has not made the shift to digital in the way that the others have. And so while we’ve discussed what it would look like to make Comics! The Magazine digital, I think that so far, everything we’ve heard would just be diminishing of the print version.
And I will say that there’s a focus that comes with reading in print that we’re not getting from anything digital. If you’re reading the pages of a magazine, you’re never going to be caught off guard by an alert popping up on the screen, on the page. You’re never going to have anything reminding you of a calendar invite that you agreed to six months ago, which is not exactly what’s going on here, maybe a little.
But it’s never going to happen that way. It’s going to be you are able to sit and focus. And so as a result, there’s this really interesting thing where websites, even social media posts, they could go 10,000 words.
They could go 1,000 words, but they don’t. They go 10, 20, maybe 50 words. We, in a magazine, we have your attention.
So in that having of your attention, we are able to tell more complex stories. We’re able to have more complex conversations because you’re going to sit and digest it in a way that you don’t, anything that’s on a screen.
Everything about the experience. I love the fact that you have Mr. Magazine because I do think that magazines are going to have a comeback. What we’re seeing in print in comics and magazine right now, I expect to see all over the place. People want that community that comes from sitting and consuming something on a monthly schedule, and they want the ability to reclaim their attention.
They want those things, and all of that comes with print, and all of that comes with magazines. I also want to focus. I’m already seeing it in my other interests that I have.
I just picked up two new jujitsu magazines. Field and Stream is back, and it’s a huge, beautiful format.
I think people are ready to unplug and to focus. Unplug and refocus.
It’s a good time to be Mr. Magazine.
I can tell you it’s going to be a good time for that.
Samir Husni: Allow me to ask some personal questions. First, I have to ask, why the exclamation mark after your first name?
Atom! Freeman: That was a social media, or early, it wasn’t even social media. It was an early Internet joke that kind of got out of hand, and it just made it easier to get myself. I’m a marketer by trade, so it just made it easier to get people to talk about me and to quote me and, you know, ask for interviews.
And also, it’s fun listening to British people pronounce it. That’s always fun, too.
Samir Husni: If I come to visit you one evening unannounced, what do I catch you doing? Reading a book, watching TV, fly fishing?
Atom! Freeman: I’m trying to get everyone in comics to fly fish, but we’ll see.
I’m not nearly as private as Joe, but I will tell you that I, in the evenings especially, sometimes I’m gardening. I spend a lot of time, I’m very lucky in that we moved into a property with a big garden. I do spend a lot of time in that, you know, might be a dip in the pool, might be whatever.
But a lot of times it is just sitting and reading. I’ve learned that if I don’t sit and read, my 11-year-old doesn’t sit and read, and I want that for him more than anything else. And, you know, otherwise it’s just cooking, spending time with family.
I will say, the more often than I like, I’m working. Because, you know, trying to build a career inside of comics, it means you do a lot of different, you wear a lot of different hats.
Samir Husni: And what keeps you up at night these days?
Atom! Freeman: Keeps me up at night these days. That’s an excellent question. Very little.
I sleep really good. I work real hard, Samir. I wake up early.
I’m already on, I was up at like 4 or 5 a.m. and outbuilding bamboo garden beds and then working for several hours. And then I’ll spend some time with family. So, by the time my head hits the pillow, it takes a lot to keep me awake.
But when it does, it’s usually these businesses that we run, that Joe and I are involved in, they’re here because people have forgotten how. They’re viable because there’s not as much competition for what we do because people have forgotten these skills. And so a lot of times we will come up with an idea or a solution, and it doesn’t feel like it fits right. Or if we just had more experience, we might be able to find somebody who knew how to solve this problem.
Those are the things that will wake me up is, that’s not how we should have done that? It’s that stuff. So, running businesses in this environment that are not AI data centers, it’ll keep you up at night, that’s for sure.
Samir Husni: Well, see the nice thing about AI, I didn’t ask you about AI, but the nice thing about if it’s print, AI cannot steal it.
Atom! Freeman: That’s very true. You know, Samir, one of the things that happens in our world is any comic that is on a digital platform ends up on a piracy site. And Comics! The Magazine is on no piracy sites right now.
A century ago, we were more culturally and artistically advanced. Magazines in the 1920s shined a very bright light on art and culture. One such magazine, albeit short lived, Art Lovers’ Magazine, is but one example of a cultural and artistic publication from 100 years ago when magazines ruled the media world. Here is its story:
“ART LOVERS’ MAGAZINE has a definite mission, as we have indicated in previous issues, and that is to popularize art and culture for readers who have no inclination to delve into technical publications.” Thus opens the editorial of issue 4 of the magazine.
The editors continue to differentiate Art Lovers’ magazine from the tens of titles that are out there on the marketplace, including their own sister magazine American Art Student and Commercial Artist “and other purely art periodicals, but in ART LOVERS’ MAGAZINE we offer the general public a high grade of fiction, a department of Health and Beauty for Milady and a few jokes, in addition to strictly art material.”
Art material that they started to count and include in the table of contents starting with issue 3. More than 60 illustrations issue 4 claims to contain as did issue 3.
Trying to stay one step ahead from the competition and curving a niche for itself separate from the many magazines out there (see chapter 1) the editors present their mission statement one more time stating, “Our purpose is to present cultural material in an attractive and entertaining form; but first, last and all the time we wish to emphasize the importance of captivating appreciation for the best in art, literature and drama.”
In addition to the mission statement, the editors justify the need of Art Lovers’ magazine. They write, “There was a definite demand for a magazine of this character, and the healthy growth of our subscription list and newsstand sales indicates that our influence is being felt. We are always glad to get suggestions and constructive criticism from our readers.”
To Courts We Go
However the magazine was not immune from the long hand of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. John S. Sumner, secretary of the society took Art Lovers’ newsstand distributors to court claiming that it was indecent. An article in The New York Times on May 30, 1925 under the headline “Magazine Sales Attacked In Court; Action Opens on Distribution of “Artists and Models” and “Art Lovers’ Magazine.” Indecent, Sumner says. Publications Defended as Giving Cheap Reproductions of Famous Paintings in Museums.”
The article in The Times went on to report, “Mr. Sumner admitted that the magazines presented reproductions of art from the Metropolitan and other museums and of life from Broadway revues. He asserted, however that exhibition in theatre or museum conferred no certificate of good character or any kind of legal approval on the thing exhibited. He argued that the concentration in cheap magazines of nudes from the stage and the gallery was prima facie evidence of the purpose of the publishers to cater to primitive impulses rather than to highly civilized ones.”
Mr. Sumner “charged that the art business had looked up so suddenly when the new methods were now putting out three different magazines, each entitled “Artists and Models.”
The defense lawyer “asked for time in which to prepare a brief. Magistrate Ryttenberg granted the motion and adjourned all the cases until he had time to consider the brief.”
“The lawyer said that the hanging of a picture in a museum did not give it any legal approval, but gave it a standing as art.”
The June 1925 issue of Hubbard Publications’ Cartoons and Movies magazine had this headline on page 18: “Art Lovers’ Magazine Wins Fight For the Freedom of the Press.”
John S. Sumner was not happy with the decision of the courts, so this time he decided to sue the magazine itself. Again the results were not to the likings of Mr. Sumner. An editorial in issue 8, dated August 1925, of the magazine said, “ART LOVERS’ MAGAZINE has just won another battle in the war for freedom of the press and decency in art, in opposition to unofficial censors who confuse nudity with lewdity.”
The editorial went on stating, “Charges that this publication violated Penal Code No. 1141 (i.e. contained so-called indecent and objectionable matter in text and illustrations) were filed by John S. Sumner, secretary of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice.
“The case went on trial before judges Herbert, Salmon and Herman in Court of Special Sessions, New York City, July 3. Mr. Sumner offered as evidence copies of the May number of ART LOVERS’ MAGAZINE, in which material he regarded as objectionable was carefully marked. The magazine, although officially accepted by the Post Office as mailable, and indorsed by leading artists and other notables, was regarded by the vice society as deleterious.”
Once in a blue moon you receive a magazine that you can’t put down until every page, every picture, every illustration is looked at, time after time, and it gives you the feeling of satisfaction, relief, and an emotional energy to continue enjoying life, the good life.
Like the Wind USA
Last month I received the first issue of the USA edition of the British magazine Like The Wind, and it was exactly what I wrote about in my first paragraph of this blog: beautiful, comforting, soothing, and all encompassing with every page I turned, and I did turn every single page from cover to cover. Mind you, I am not a runner…
I loved the magazine so much that I reached out to its co-founder Simon Freeman in the United Kingdom and requested an interview about this phenomenal magazine that just launched an American edition after launching a Japanese one two years ago, and are ready to launch a French and German editions later this year.
Simon was as passionate about the magazine, ink on paper, running and the human spirit that goes with it, and all things “Like The Wind,” as the magazine itself.
Simon Freeman
So please enjoy my interview with Simon and read all about the launch story of Like The Wind in the UK, Japan, and the USA.
But first the soundbites:
On what is Like The Wind selling: “what we are selling is 20 minutes with a cup of coffee, reading something not on a screen. That’s actually what we’re selling, is just a moment of calm, sitting with a print magazine, just taking a moment to relax and enjoy yourself.”
On the goal of the magazine: “We want to continue to create that sense of calm around the experience of reading the magazine.”
On the uniqueness of the USA edition: “The US edition now uses US spelling. And some of the stories that are in the US edition are unique only to that North American edition.”
On expending into global markets: “It’s about trying to kind of create a magazine that is as high quality and as enjoyable a reading experience as possible for a local audience.”
On his love for the magazine format: “I just love the format of a magazine. I love the fact you read a story. It’s done. You put it down. You don’t have to remember where you are. You pick it up the next time you read another story. I love the long form journalism. I love the way they feel in my hand.”
On the decision to launch the magazine: “Very famously in my world, (my wife Julie) said, we should give it a go. How hard can it be? And that was honestly how it started.”
On choosing the name Like The Wind: “We need a magazine that is evocative, and sort of inspirational. And I just remember we were just sat thinking about it, and Julie said, Like The Wind.”
On why the word run is not in any article title: “We work hard to not include the word run or running in the titles of any of the stories. So when people go to the contents, we don’t have the word run or running in the titles of any of the stories.”
On the usage of social media to advertise: “It’s ironic and interesting. The world that we live in today, outside of social media, it’s hard to imagine how you can reach people with a new title. It’s difficult to know.”
On the status of magazines today: “They’re not the center of culture anymore. They’re very peripheral. And people don’t go looking for them.”
On their unique selling point: “We are selling a product that encourages people to spend half an hour a week or an hour a week off their screens.”
On the difference between ink on paper and digital screens: “The screen is so flat, whatever screen you’re on, whether it’s a laptop or a phone or whatever, it’s just this two-dimensional surface, right? There’s no texture. I love the idea of embossing the cover or foil blocking or like trying to put in rougher paper or smoother paper, because what you’re doing is you’re activating a whole another sense, which is the feel of the thing in your hands.”
On using different types of paper in the magazine: “We put different types of paper in because we can, because it’s something that print allows you to do that digital doesn’t.”
On AI when it comes to content: “I don’t believe that AI has the capacity to be truly creative. So, when it comes to the art, the imagery, the words in the magazine, the editing, the sub editing, I feel that that’s got to be a human, because they bring a creative sensibility that a machine, at least currently, can’t replicate.
I want to read something that’s come from somebody’s heart. I want something that has come from their soul. And I need to know, I need to feel that it’s come from that.”
On going for a run: “It’s amazing, the feeling in your lungs when you finish and the fact that your legs are burning a little bit. It’s all very visceral and analogue. There’s no digital version of that.”
On the importance of diversity in the magazine: “I think there is a continual need and drive to diversify the voices that are telling stories about running.”
On what keeps him up at night these days: “We are pushing our business to the limits and that is causing a lot of financial stress.”
And now for the lightly edited Mr. Magazine™ Interview with Simon Freeman, Publisher and Editor in Chief, Like The Wind magazine:
Practicing what he preaches
Samir Husni: Congratulations first on the launch of the US edition of Like the Wind. I know that you’ve launched an edition in Japan and you’re getting ready to launch one in France and one in Germany, and you’ve been publishing the magazine in England for 12 years or so. Why this global expansion in print in a digital age?
Simon Freeman: Oh, that’s such a good question. It’s a two-part answer. The first part is that three years ago, my wife and I (Julie and I are the co-founders of Like The Wind), were approached by, by a book publisher to work on a book with them.
We said, yeah, absolutely. We love working on it. It was a great book.
It was good fun. What we didn’t understand is that with book publishing, the publisher will then sell the rights to different language versions of the book. We didn’t know that.
So there’s a German edition and a French edition. There’s an Italian edition of this book that we wrote, which is cool. Then, one day the publisher rang us and said, we are selling the rights to a Japanese publisher, but the Japanese publisher has asked whether he can be put in touch with you directly because he wants to talk to you about the magazine.
We were like, sure, sounds cool. So, we got on a call with this guy Mr. Kiyo Fujishiro. He said, I have this business where I translate English language running books into Japanese, which is fine, but I love the idea of a magazine because a magazine is a regular thing you do three, four times a year.
How many copies do you sell in Japan? he asked. We said, none, like 20 copies or something. It was like nothing. He said, could we talk about me buying the license to publish the magazine in Japanese? And in the end, the way things worked out, instead of paying us for the license, why don’t we go into a joint venture? So Kiyo basically takes the English language version, the PDF, and he picks the stories that he wants, he translates them.
Obviously, he’s got, when he started, 46 editions to go back through, none of which had been seen in Japan because we weren’t selling any copies. So, he just picks the stories that he wants, translates them into Japanese, and then he adds probably about 20-25% Japanese stories. That was how Japan started.
What the Japanese edition explained to us was that what we are selling is 20 minutes with a cup of coffee, reading something not on a screen. That’s what we’re selling, is just a moment of calm, sitting with a print magazine, just taking a moment to relax and enjoy yourself. So, the French and German editions that we’re launching this year are based on the same principle, which is, if you’re a native French-speaking person, reading a magazine in English is not as relaxing as reading the stories in French.
We want to continue to create that sense of calm around the experience of reading the magazine. The US edition is slightly different. Basically, it became apparent that printing all of the editions in the UK and then shipping to the US as our US audience was growing fast was, from a sustainability point of view, not great, and from a cost point of view, not great.
We reached a point where we were able to go to a printer in the US and say, well, can we afford to print the copies that we require for the US audience in the US? It will reduce our transport costs, it reduces the amount of time, it’s much better for the environment. So we’ve hit a number that’s allowed us to start working with a US printer. There is an element of the same idea, which is, because we’re doing two different PDFs, they don’t have to be the same.
The US edition now uses US spelling. And some of the stories that are in the US edition are unique only to that North American edition.And I’ll give you an example of why I think that’s important.
There’s a thing in US sport called NIL, Name Image Licensing. Outside of the US, no one knows what that is. It makes no sense at all.
So, if we’re writing a story about NIL, for everyone else in the world, we must explain what NIL is in the story. But the US audience, we don’t need to do that. So, it means that we can now slightly tailor the reading experience to the local audience.
And it’s the same the other way around, right? There might be, a concept that is commonly understood in France. But for the US audience, we need to just explain what it is a little bit because it’s foreign. It’s about trying to kind of create a magazine that is as high quality and as enjoyable a reading experience as possible for a local audience.
That’s why we’re doing it.
Samir Husni: What is the genesis of Like the Wind?
Simon Freeman: When we launched the magazine 12 years ago, I was much more a runner than I am now.
The media options in the UK at the time were very, what I would call, functional. So, the magazines that you could buy were full of training tips and nutrition articles and stuff like that. I already had a coach.
I was trying to break two and a half hours for the marathon. I was running 80, 90 miles a week. So, I felt like I didn’t need the advice in terms of how to run.
But there were this whole bunch of magazines. Rouleur is a good example in cycling. There was another cycling magazine called The Ride Journal, which doesn’t exist anymore.
The Surfer’s Journal. And I was buying these magazines. And so my wife and I were running a route around the Mont Blanc called the TMB over three days.
One of the things we were talking about was Julie was saying to me, I see that you’re buying these surfing magazines and these cycling magazines, but you don’t cycle and you don’t surf. So why are you buying them? And I said, well, I just love the format of a magazine. I love the fact you read a story. It’s done. You put it down. You don’t have to remember where you are. You pick it up the next time you read another story. I love the long form journalism. I love the way they feel in my hand.
I was already at that point spending, goodness knows, 12, 13, 14 hours a day on a screen for work. So, I love the idea that when I wasn’t at work, I could just sit and read something in ink on paper. And Julie said to me, well, why does this magazine not exist in running? And I said, I don’t know.
Julie said, well, we should give it a go. Very famously in my world, she said, we should give it a go. How hard can it be? And that was honestly how it started.
We were doing that run around the Mont Blanc in the September, and we launched issue one the following February. We had no idea what we were doing. I remember Julie going on to Google and saying, how do you design a magazine? We quickly got support.
The team at Rouleur were amazing. They’re based in London. They invited us as soon as they saw what we were doing. They invited us down and said, how can we help? Is there any advice that you need? Other people helped quickly that we emailed them and said, we’re trying to launch this running magazine. How do we do it? So, it’s a nice community of people that are happy to support, especially if you’re making a magazine not in their sector. You know, I’m sure if we’ve been launching a cycling magazine, Rouleur might not have been quite as helpful.
Samir Husni: How did you choose the name Like The Wind?
Simon Freeman: We came up with the name, and again, all credit to Julie, she was the person that came up with the name. The reason we came up with the name was that we didn’t want it to have the word run or running in it. Because all the other magazines were Men’s Running, Women’s Running, Runner’s World, Running Fitness.
We’re like, we need a magazine that is evocative, and sort of inspirational. And I just remember we were just sat thinking about it, and Julie said, Like the Wind. Interestingly, we do sometimes get people who will send us a message and they say, I’ve just discovered Run Like The Wind magazine.
It’s not Run Like The Wind, it’s just Like the Wind. We work hard to not include the word run or running in the titles of any of the stories. So, when people go to the contents, we don’t have the word run or running in the titles of any of the stories.
Samir Husni: How was the reaction for the launch of the USA edition?
Simon Freeman: It’s been amazing. It’s been really, positive. We’re fortunate in that we’ve been selling the magazine in the US almost since issue one, so 12 and a half years ago.
We already had an audience. What’s been interesting is that launching a US specific edition has given us a good reason to talk about the magazine beyond there’s another edition coming out. We can explain why we’re doing it.
It feels as though we reached far beyond our existing audience of subscribers. It’s good. There’s also, which I think is true, an element of collecting.
You mentioned earlier that you had a collection of magazines with first editions. There’s lots of people who’ve discovered Like The Wind at issue 37. And you know that there’s an element in many of their minds that they’re like I want the full collection.
So, launching Like The Wind USA issue one has again given us this opportunity to say, you can start from issue one, you can build this collection with us over the next decade or whatever.
Samir Husni: I’ve noticed you’ve been using social media to advertise the magazine.
Simon Freeman: Yes, it’s ironic and interesting. The world that we live in today, outside of social media, it’s hard to imagine how you can reach people with a new title. It’s difficult to know.
Sometimes I think to myself, well, how did people advertise magazines before social media? I think what’s happened, and I love learning about magazines, I love all sources of information about magazines. I think people would discover magazines on newsstands, right? And that doesn’t really exist anymore, or not in any meaningful sense. So that source of reaching people doesn’t exist.
Magazines, they’re not the center of culture anymore. They’re very peripheral. And people don’t go looking for them.
So, it’s not like people, when I was younger, magazines meant so much to me that I would go and seek them out. I really want a magazine about whatever this topic that I’m interested in. That doesn’t seem to happen so much anymore.
So, unfortunately, well, not unfortunately, the reality is that what people do is they go online and they look for, they search for running stories. We need to make sure that when they look for running stories alongside YouTube videos and books and whatever else, Like The Wind magazine is featured. We are selling a product that encourages people to spend half an hour a week or an hour a week off their screens. And we’re using those screens to advertise the product. What can you do?
Samir Husni: I noticed in the first issue, you use two different types of paper, the matte and the glossy. The reason behind that?
Simon Freeman: Well, again, there’s two reasons, really. One is because the photos fit beautifully on gloss paper. But I think the matte paper has a nice feel. So, it’s like, it’s nice to just have the photos really ping. It gives you that wow, they look sharp on gloss paper. It feels nice to hold a magazine that’s got lots of matte material in it.
Maybe, the other side of it, is because we can, because the screen is so flat, whatever screen you’re on, whether it’s a laptop or a phone or whatever, it’s just this two-dimensional surface, right? There’s no texture. I love the idea of embossing the cover or foil blocking or like trying to put in rougher paper or smoother paper, because what you’re doing is you’re activating a whole another sense, which is the feel of the thing in your hands, which the screen just removes all of that. We put different types of paper in because we can, because it’s something that print allows you to do that digital doesn’t.
Samir Husni: Speaking of digital, do you ever use AI?
Simon Freeman: We do. We are judicious in our use of it. When I’m doing an interview, I’ll sometimes use an AI tool to transcribe the audio file. There are certain things that we’re using it for in the kind of operational side, the backend, like managing subscriptions and things like that.
There are ways that we can use AI to ensure that we are using the data that we need to ship people’s copies in a way that is secure, but faster than us going through a spreadsheet. AI is a phenomenal tool to do something where there are very clear rules and structures to follow. It does it fast.
So, if you say I need you to transcribe this piece of audio, there’s not a lot of art in that. You’re looking for as accurate a representation of that audio file as possible in words. And if you can do it in 60 seconds while you make a cup of tea, and then you come back and it’s ready, rather than spending four hours with it in your ears, trying to transcribe it.
That’s an efficiency. I don’t believe that AI has the capacity to be truly creative. So, when it comes to the art, the imagery, the words in the magazine, the editing, the sub editing, I feel that that’s got to be a human, because they bring a creative sensibility that a machine, at least currently, can’t replicate.
I want to read something that’s come from somebody’s heart. I want something that has come from their soul. And I need to know, I need to feel that it’s come from that.
The other thing, of course, is that what we are publishing stories about is an inherently analogue activity. You can’t AI going for a run. I went out with my brother-in-law this morning for a run along the lakeshore here in Switzerland, with the wind in our hair.
It’s amazing, the feeling in your lungs when you finish and the fact that your legs are burning a little bit. It’s all very visceral and analogue. There’s no digital version of that.
It makes sense then that as far as possible, the storytelling bit should be from humans. If you think about publishing in the broader sense, I think information and maybe news is more under threat because an AI agent can pull information together quickly, more efficiently, potentially, than a human writer. But if you’re publishing what we’re writing, what we’re publishing, which is not informational, it’s inspiration, it’s entertainment, it’s ideas and concepts. That’s got to be a person, in my opinion.
Samir Husni: If it’s not on the web, if it’s print only, AI cannot touch or steal it, or come close to it.
Simon Freeman: I totally agree. It’s part of the joy. There’s a joy and a frustration in things that are not ubiquitous. You can’t have it. I’m sorry. You have to literally buy a physical copy and wait for it to arrive.
It’s amazing, the feeling in your lungs when you finish and the fact that your legs are burning a little bit. It’s all very visceral and analogue. There’s no digital version of that.
We will always publish stories that are written by people, honestly. I think that’s entertainment. People don’t want to go to an art gallery to look at art that’s been created by a robot. People don’t want to go to a rock concert to listen to music that’s been created by these robots.
Art forms, writing, art, fine art, music, you want to know that there’s been a sweaty, fallible human being kind of behind it, because I think that’s why we indulge in it.
Samir Husni: Before I ask you my typical last questions, is there any question that I should ask you that I failed not to ask you?
Simon Freeman: I love asking that question. The question I would ask is, if I was asking myself this question is, how do we improve the storytelling that we’re doing in Like The Wind magazine? And to answer my own question, I think there is a continual need and drive to diversify the voices that are telling stories about running.
There’s this myth that running is this easily accessible, you just need a pair of shoes, and you can go for a run, and it’s not true. It’s really not true. I remember when we started, when I started gathering momentum, when we started the magazine, I was the editor originally, and it’s a complete joke because I didn’t know what I was doing, but I would be gathering stories, and you suddenly realize that if you are not an able-bodied, relatively wealthy white man, running is not universally accessible.
What we’re able to do with Like The Wind is to try and tell some of the stories of people for whom running is important, but it’s not ubiquitous. It’s not this easy thing. I remember there was a young man called Ahmed Arbery who was murdered whilst out on a run by some people who decided that he was running in the wrong place, and we had to respond to that, we had to do something about that. I was phoning friends of mine who are black and asking them about this sort of thing, and they were, the universality of their response, which is, it’s not safe for me to go running at night, or in this part of town, or whatever.
I was horrified, I mean, horrified. I was like, what are you talking about? Going out for a run? Surely, it’s just this universal human right. Or I remember talking to women, friends of mine, who would say, it’s annoying when the clocks change.
I remember saying to one of these women why? What’s the problem with the clocks changing? She said, well, I don’t feel safe running on my own after dark. I was like, that’s potentially half the human population. So, I think, the question I like being asked is, how do we make the magazine better? The answer is more diverse voices, more people who can share their experience of running.
I’ll tell you another quick story. We published 40 editions in 10 years, and the 41st edition, the first edition of our second decade, we decided that we would make it a women’s edition. So, we hired a woman called Amory Rowe, and she was the editor for that one edition. It was a fully female team, only female writers, only female illustrators, only female characters within the magazine.
We published this edition, and somebody wrote to us and said, I see that you’ve published this women’s only edition. Should I assume that there’ll be a men’s only edition in the future? And I was like, if we published only women’s stories for the next 500 editions, we would not even come close to rebalancing the lack of coverage that women’s sport gets in the media.
So, in our own tiny little way, I think that giving voice to, to be blunt, giving voice to not me is important. And it’s something that we’ve really focused on. It’s part of the editorial.
Samir Husni: My typical two last questions, if I come to visit you at your flat or your house one evening unannounced, what do I catch Simon doing? Reading a book, watching TV, having a glass of wine? How do you rewind the day?
Simon Freeman: I stopped drinking at the beginning of this year.
The best decision I ever made. I work too late. I’ll often at 9:30 or 10 o’clock, I’ll have to remind myself to switch off. I love reading books.
I’m currently reading Robert Caro’s autobiography of President Lyndon Johnson. That’s probably how I relax towards the end of the day. Political history is exciting.
I love reading about political history or I’ve always got a magazine. There’s always a magazine on the go, whatever different topics. That’s hopefully what you’d catch me doing. We don’t own a TV, so it wouldn’t be watching TV.
Samir Husni: What keeps Simon up at night these days?
Simon Freeman: We are pushing our business to the limits and that is causing a lot of financial stress. And it’s intentional, but it does mean that I will often wake up at two o’clock in the morning and pay for the next print bill or the next salary run or whatever else. It’s hard, making sure that the magazine or the business is financially secure.
Michael Kusek knows when to hold them and he knows when to fold them, like the country music song goes. He started an art magazine for New England called Take few years back, only to fold it and launch Different Leaf magazine, a cannabis magazine for Massachusetts and New England, which he also folded five years later in the midst of all the advertising struggles that the industry was facing as you will read in this interview.
Now he is relaunching Different Leaf with a completely different approach. One, it is no longer a regional magazine, but rather a global one, and two, it is a collector’s item to be hold and displayed, like an art piece. In addition, each issue will have a guest editor or two who will be very involved in the magazine creation. The guest editors for issue 1 is no other that Nick Cave and Bob Faust. Also, a first for the magazine is a magazine curator: Denise Markonish, who is the curator of the first issue. She was the curator at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art for the last 18 years.
The first issue of the relaunched Different Leaf
The curated magazine will come in three different formats, a soft cover costing $40, a hard cover costing $100 and a collector’s box with pieces of art costing a hefty $1,000.
As Michael says, there is an entry point to each reader or customer and based on what I saw, each entry point is worth it, so hopefully this third launch is a charm.
Without further ado, please enjoy my interview with a true believer in print and in its permeance. Michael Kusek, publisher and editor in chief of Different Leaf magazine.
Michael Kusek
But first the soundbites:
On whether the third time is a charm: “Sure. One hopes, one hopes that the old adage lives up to its lives up to its reputation.”
On the audience: “You had magazines that were definitely targeted towards much younger people. The content in general and the pop culture angles were much younger…There wasn’t anything out there for the older beginner cannabis user at the time that rapidly changed.”
On the new direction for Different Leaf: “The writers that we worked with really closely, were very interested in the cultural intersection of cannabis and the broader culture.”
On the content of the magazine: “How cannabis impacted the broader culture and how the broader culture was impacting cannabis.”
On the mission of Different Leaf: “…bringing in creatives from the world of fine art, music, and fashion to guest edit three issues about their particular look at the intersection of cannabis and culture.”
On the magazine’s format: “Nick and Bob decided that they didn’t want to structure it like a magazine. So, it’s not. It doesn’t have a front of book. It doesn’t have a well, it doesn’t have a back of book. It has a couple of things that make it look like a magazine inside, but it is an art piece in a lot of ways. And it’s ink on paper. It’s in print.”
On the power of print in a digital age: “But it feels like in a period of time where we don’t know what’s real, at least having something you can hold in your hand feels real.”
More on the power of print: “I’m more convinced in the importance of print now than I think I ever have been, because this will always remain this, like this isn’t going to go away. It’s going to stay on a shelf.”
And even more on the power of print: “People used to say to me, why are you doing print? And I was like, because 20 years from now, you’ll still be able to read the interview I’m doing with you. You’ll be able to pick it up and read it. You know, the interview you do online may or may not be there.”
On the major difference this time than the previous ones: “A difference, certainly, is the magazine is going to be global. For the first time, it’ll be available, around the world and on newsstands around the world, which is an exciting difference.”
On what keeps him up at night these days: “Will our guest editor for issue two say yes. I would love it if she did. It would be great to announce it at some point.”
And now for the lightly edited interview with Michael Kusek, publisher and editor in chief, Different Leaf magazine.
Samir Husni: So, tell me, is the third time a charm?
Michael Kusek: Sure. One hopes, one hopes that the old adage lives up to its lives up to its reputation.
SH: Why the relaunch now?
MK: A lot of reasons went into sort of the change.
I think on one hand is the cannabis industry and business in general is always wildly in flux. And so it makes operating in that business environment very tricky. One of the challenges in being a national cannabis magazine was the way advertising is regulated state by state, unlike other industries in this country, where, for instance, cigarettes, there are national regulations around cigarette advertising or alcohol advertising, Federal Trade Commission, sort of standards. So when Different Leaf was just a regional magazine covering Massachusetts and New England, selling advertising was much easier because the advertisers were trying to fulfill regulations for a smaller number of states.
The difference between regional and national
But once we went national, I had more than one perspective, one cannabis company that’s operating on a national level, operating in multiple states, say, well, we can’t take an ad out with you because we can’t design an ad that’s compliant for every state. And so, being small was actually more successful in a way, being just Massachusetts, just New England was much more successful than being national. It made a lot more challenges, just on the business end.
Then on the editorial end there was a real rapid change in five years, which was when I started researching what was out there in the world of magazines covering the cannabis space. You had magazines that were definitely targeted towards much younger people. The content in general and the pop culture angles were much younger.
The way the products were described was definitely much younger. And then you had sort of things like High Times, which were senior level, like a senior level seminar on cannabis, as opposed to something for beginners. There wasn’t anything out there for the older beginner cannabis user at the time that rapidly changed.
You had much more mainstream media pickup on cannabis as a topic. From the time we started to the time we stopped those five years, the number of times that cannabis appeared positively in The New York Times, it really increased a lot.
It was very interesting reading articles we’d already written in The New York Times, after the fact. So, we’re like, we did that two years ago. The sense of our uniqueness in the space was kind of under threat in a way, the mainstream media was going to come along and eat our lunch.
When I made these decisions two years ago, things have changed half a dozen to dozen times in terms of social media. Some days Meta is fine with cannabis advertising. Some days Meta is not fine with cannabis advertising. I think people in the cannabis space, and it’s a problem I face today as a cannabis adjacent arts magazine right now, talking about cannabis on social media can get you banned very quickly and very easily.
On the editorial front, mainstream media was kind of coming along. And then what we wanted to do as a team, the writers who worked for me, we were interested in this particular angle in the cannabis industry that was ultimately not as big as we thought it was going to be. You have a small, savvy group of people in the cannabis industry who are doing new things, and a whole lot of people who are copying them.
A new beginning: A cultural intersection of cannabis and the broader culture
When we got down to looking for topics to write about, or for businesses to write about, we kept coming back to the same pool of businesses repeatedly. One of my better writers, somebody who’s been with me since the days of Take magazine, he’s great, he was a great arts writer who became a great weed writer, basically said to me, I’ve run out of adjectives to describe gummies. It just wasn’t there.
We were working with a great writer, somebody who came from Bon Appetit, who was writing about cannabis and food. And even they were like, I kind of want to talk about the cultural piece. The writers that we worked with closely, were very interested in the cultural intersection of cannabis and the broader culture.
How cannabis impacted the broader culture and how the broader culture was impacting cannabis. That, editorially, was where we were interested in doing. How I’ve ended up wrapping it up in the current package that we have is a long tail as well. But it was from talking to people in the industry, talking to people we work with, talking to people we cover, of what kind of things were you looking for? And then just that desire to try to keep things new and to keep things different.
That’s how we landed on this. I’ve always loved the guest editor idea. I always loved what Visionaire magazine did. A guest editor, or guest editors and bringing people in to work on a magazine, sometimes it can be just a little throwaway. You can see that there wasn’t a lot of real input from the person who did it. And then in other instances, like A magazine, a magazine curated by the fashion title that hands itself over to a different fashion designer or fashion house, every issue, that’s just, it works so incredibly well. Every issue is a radical transformation.
So of course, you want to get every issue because it’s completely exciting every single time. And I prefer to go with that latter than the former. I think because cannabis changes so much as an industry and so much as a topic, one way to meet the challenge of covering that is to always bring fresh eyes into it over time.
I’m committed to this look at cannabis for at least three issues in this format, art, music, and fashion. We shall see if cannabis continues to be the main thrust of this, or if we move on to a different topic, because it’ll all depend on where cannabis is at that time.
SH: So if you are going to define the mission of those next three issues of Different Leaf, how would you define it?
MK: We are bringing in creatives from the world of fine art, music, and fashion to guest edit three issues about their particular look at the intersection of cannabis and culture.
That is our mission for these three issues. And we’re one down.
We are talking to our second guest editor next week to see if she’s willing to come on board. And so there is interest in this, and we’re selling them online already, and we haven’t even printed them. So that’s always exciting.
SH: You are offering the magazine in three different packages. You have the soft cover, you have a hardback cover, or have a collector’s box with art pieces.
MK: Yes, that was the other different way of looking at this and looking at the revenue stream. I don’t think we would have been able to do this model of selling the magazine without my friend, Denise Markonish, who is the curator of the first issue. She was the curator at the Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art for the last 18 years.
She’s just switched and she’s now working in New York City, but she’s been a longtime friend. She was somebody I talked to about this project, and she said I’ve never curated a magazine. I’d love to do that.
And so I was like, cool, you can be my first curator. She has the ability to call up Nick Cave and Bob Faust, and she literally sat here in my office, texted them, and they both said yes. I don’t think we’d be able to do that artist edition level, particularly out of the gate without names like Nick Cave and Bob Faust.
It really made a big difference. But also having them involved made a very big difference in who ultimately became involved with all of the editorial in the book. We were able to bring in the author Jonathan Lethem.
We were able to work with the Broadway star André De Shields. It allowed us to sort of level up some of the creative people who came on board. Ultimately, I think that also allows us to sell this artist edition.
The bells and whistles in the artist edition come with a little rolling tray designed by Nick and Bob, and a sleeping mask, which all fits in with the book. And that’s all a limited-edition little object.
So there is interest out there with very little marketing on that front. We’ve sold a couple. We’re about to print up the boxes that it comes in.
SH: The magazine is not cheap.
MK: $1,000 for the box. It is a very limited-edition art piece. $100 for the hardback, and $100 for the hardcover and then 40 for the newsstand. So there is an entry point for everyone.
I had a great intern, a student from UMass, son of a dear college friend, a couple summers ago, as I was thinking about this project, who came to work with me for the summer.
And we talked, we always were talking about things, things that he’s interested in. It’s always nice to talk to somebody half your age every once in a while, to find out, what’s cool, or confirm your priors or learn something new. He talked to me very excitedly about a book he bought. It was a Faden Press book of Virgil Abloh, the fashion designer who was at Louis Vuitton, designed for Nike, and was a very high in demand as a streetwear designer. Abloh had so many cultural connections.
My intern talked to me very excitedly about how he saved up his money to buy that book. He wanted to have that $100 book on his shelf, and how much that book meant to him, because he was incredibly connected to Abloh as a cultural figure.
That meant a lot, and he talked a lot about how having the book on the coffee table meant something for him. I thought about that: for some magazine people it is only meant for a moment. And for some magazine people, those magazines are on a shelf for all time.
Thus, providing that limited run of hardcovers for folks gives them something to step up to, or aspire to, to add to their collection. And Nick in particular, as an artist, is one of those people.
I was in New York City to go to Nick’s gallery opening, I went with two friends of mine. And by 9:30, there were 1,000 people in that galley. I mean, it was mobbed.
It was absolutely mobbed. And overwhelmingly, the later part of the evening, it was incredibly young. And my friend, I was just looking at all of those people in there who love Nick, and one of my best friends who was with me said, so what do you think? I was like, A, incredibly happy for Nick. This is a phenomenal art opening. B, very happy about my choices.
So, we’re sort of seeing it for the third time. You talk about the third time is a charm. I’m working with an agency, which I’ve never done before, for any launch. I’m working with this agency, Digital Council in New York. They have a PR side called Cultural Council. Primarily, they work in the arts and museum space. They don’t work in the media space. They don’t work in the cannabis space.
In the last three weeks they’re saying we need to build up your audience online so that we can market back to them and sell the magazines and sell them books and that sort of thing.
They’ve been running ads for the magazine to find out more information about it. We’ve added something like 1500 names to our email list in three weeks, which for us is an enormous number of people in a short period of time. I’m encouraged, but also, it’s a crazy business. I feel like we threw everything into this issue that we could possibly throw into this issue. Like, I put it all in.
People who’ve seen it really like it, they really are enjoying it. I’ve had people read the proof of it cold, come in cold and just read it and look at it. And I had people in the art world look at it. I had people in the cannabis world look at it and just sort of said, like, is this something you would buy? And they were like, this is, I’ve never seen anything like it.
This is weird. Nick and Bob decided that they didn’t want to structure it like a magazine. So, it’s not. It doesn’t have a front of book. It doesn’t have a well, it doesn’t have a back of book.
It has a couple of things that make it look like a magazine inside, but it is an art piece in a lot of ways. And it’s ink on paper. It’s in print.
SH: Tell me about your love of print and why do you think the power of print in this digital age is still something to talk about?
MK: You and I have talked about this a bunch of the years that we’ve known each other. And I’m more convinced in the importance of print now than I think I ever have been, because this will always remain this, like this isn’t going to go away. It’s going to stay on a shelf.
I think about six, seven years ago, probably when I started Different Leaf and we did five years of issues of that. At the same time, there was a lot of stuff happening in cannabis. There were other titles around. Some of them were digital. Some of them were print. Some of them were both. A lot of them are gone, like don’t even exist on the web anymore. And so you have this stuff disappears. People used to say to me, why are you doing print? And I was like, because 20 years from now, you’ll still be able to read the interview I’m doing with you.
You’ll be able to pick it up and read it. You know, the interview you do online may or may not be there. But then the other part of that now with the rise of AI what is real on digital? The question about, I think that there is the question about what am I looking at? And is it real? And has a human written it? Has a human created this image beyond a prompt? That I’m not saying people in print aren’t using AI.
But if you’re committed to print, you’re probably committed to having people make the stuff that goes in print. I can’t imagine that there are many people out there who are like, I’m going to 100% make a print magazine out of AI. We haven’t run into them yet. Maybe they’ll show up at some point. But it feels like in a period of time where we don’t know what’s real, at least having something you can hold in your hand feels real.
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SH: Before I ask you my typical last questions.Is there any question I failed to ask you you’d like me to ask you?
MK: What makes Different Leaf different? A difference, certainly, is the magazine is going to be global. We’re working with Ron Ali in the UK. We, we also have some distribution here. Barnes and Noble has picked us up as well, which I think is interesting for we have a high cover price. These were not cheap to make. And these are not cheap to produce and are not cheap to print. I’m printing in Italy, which is different. I’m printing in Italy because that proved to be the best price. And working with a printer, Nova Press that can do the complexity of it all.
The other part of the business and what’s radically different is that this is a global thing. For the first time, it’ll be available, around the world and on newsstands around the world, which is an exciting difference.
It’ll be interesting to see how we can build a global audience rather than just a domestic one.
SH: My typical last two questions are, if I come to visit you one day unannounced, what do I catch Michael doing at home in the evening, smoking a joint, having a glass of wine, reading a book, watching TV?
MK: Of late, I’ve literally been watching TV. I’ve been assembling things to put in the artist box.
So, I’ve been doing arts and crafts. I am wending my way through the giant stack of magazines I have. I over shopped over the last couple months, but with little time to read.
I’m reading to see what other people are doing. That’s what I’m doing these days. And it’s very exciting. I’m supporting my peers by reading them.
SH: And what keeps you up at night these days?
MK: I think what’s keeping me up right now is the next five months are going to be a lot of promotional activity and will our guest editor for issue two say yes. I would love it if she did. It would be great to announce it at some point.
SH: Thank you and congratulations again on the relaunch.
A century ago, we were more culturally and artistically advanced. Magazines in the 1920s shined a very bright light on art and culture. One such magazine, albeit short lived, Art Lovers’ Magazine, is but one example of a cultural and artistic publication from 100 years ago when magazines ruled the media world. Here is its story:
Chapter 2, Part 2
Art Lovers’ Volume 1, Number 3
The Hubbard Connection
A lot has been written about Elbert Hubbard the founder of the Roycroft handicraft community of the late 19th century and early 20th century. The same can be said about Freeman H. Hubbard who was appointed editor of Art Lovers’ magazine commencing with the second issue of the magazine. However, all the current references about Freeman Hubbard are in his association as an author and editor of Railroad magazine from 1930 until its demise in 1979.
Although Art Lovers’ magazine was published by Art Publications, Inc. in New York City, its covers touted that it is a Hubbard Publication starting with issue 4. The president of the company was Walter W. Hubbard and the associate editor of the magazine was the “Rev. Walter Warren Hubbard, the son of one the founders of Hubbard Publishing Company” that was founded in Philadelphia, PA in 1868 by Alfred H. Hubbard and Frank W. Judd as the Hubbard Brothers and was renamed the Hubbard Publishing Company in 1893 according to the 19th Century Juvenile Series last revision on Feb. 24, 2025.
The original Hubbard Publishing Company was, “a subscription publishing house” and “a well-known Bible publisher,” according to the source.
One early indication of the relationship between Art Lovers’ magazine and Hubbard Publications is the reference to Art Lovers’ in a Feb. 1925 article about the photographer James Wallace Pondelicek in Hubbard’s The American Art Student and Commercial Artist magazine. “Without a doubt, James Wallace Pondelicek, photographer and artist, ranks among the few pictorial photographers of America whose work merits the highest honors. As a figure photographer he is a master,” the editors wrote.
They continued, “Of late Mr. Pondelicek, whose work has appeared in the columns of this, and of Art Lovers’ Magazine, has been going in for advertisement illustration. We hope to persuade him, at some time in the near future, to contribute an article, helpful and technical, based on his experiences along that line.”
With the second issue of the magazine, the Hubbard connection became more obvious. In addition to Walter W. Hubbard and Freeman H Hubbard, the magazine announced the appointment of “the Rev. Walter W. Hubbard, of the Philadelphia Law and Order Society and of the Pennsylvania Anti-Saloon League as associate editor with this issue.”
Between the credentials of Freeman H Hubbard and the Rev. Walter W. Hubbard, you will think Art Lovers’ is more of moral, religious magazine. Read how Freeman was introduced when they announced him as editor of the magazine, “The publishers of ART LOVERS’ MAGAZINE announce the appointment of Freeman H. Hubbard, A.B., as editor, effective with this issue.”
“Mr. Hubbard was a scholarship winner at the Pennsylvania Academy of the Fine Arts…In addition, he is well known as a writer of short stories…Mr. Hubbard is recognized as an authority on ethics, having recently received the award of the Philadelphia Ethical Culture Society for the best statement of the meaning of the ethical movement.”
The editorial added, “His connection with ART LOVERS’ Magazine, therefore, is assurance that it will be kept to a high moral standard without losing any of its attractiveness.”
As for the Rev. Water W. Hubbard, the associate editor of the magazine is introduced in issue 3 as, “The son of one of the founders of the Hubbard Publishing Company—the Rev. Walter Warren Hubbard, of the Philadelphia Law and Order Society, widely known preacher and lecturer for the Pennsylvania Anti-Saloon League…”
In fact the Reverand Water Warren Hubbard had a story in issue 3 of the magazine titled, “Three Red Sweaters and a Canary Bird.” Another Hubbard also wrote for the magazine; Henry D. Hubbard, the assistant director of Bureau of Standards, Washington, D. C.: He wrote about “Ther Motion Pictures of Tomorrow.”
Yet, one more Hubbard is also included in the third issue of Art Lovers’ magazine. Hesketh Hubbard, “eminent British artist, has assembled a collection of two hundred and thirty-two prints by ninety-seven contemporary British artists, which arrived in this country recently for exhibition, during March, at the Brooklyn Museum, and later in other museums and galleries in this country.”
The publishers of Art Lovers’ magazine were also proud of their relationship with the late “Elbert Hubbard and his son, Elbert Hubbard II, and we lose no opportunity to speak well of the Roycroft publications of East Aurora, N.Y.”
Mr. Magazine 