Mr. Magazine

“We expect to be in digital, maybe through acquisitions, maybe through launches, but we certainly aren’t doing it because we need to make up for print losses. The print business is a very successful business with very loyal readers, but if there is more we can do with our expertise in another market, that’s great too.” 

“If people are missing out on print or digital because of some preconceived notion, I think they’re missing the plot anyhow. You have to follow your consumer. It doesn’t start with what you want to do or what you want to make or the format you want to make it in. It starts with consumer need and then grows out of that.”

Bringing more than 25 years of experience to his new position, Steven Kotok joined the Keesing Media Group on September 6, 2022 as president and Managing Director of North America, which includes their latest acquisition of Kappa Books and Publishing. He will be responsible for guiding the strategic direction for Keesing in the North American markets and focus on further expanding the company’s footprint since the acquisition of Kappa in March. As former president and CEO USA for the Bauer Media Group, Steven knows a thing or two about the ever-changing markets of the media world. 

Steven moved recently back to New York State and lives in Nyack with his wife Karina and their 2.5 years son Theodore. I spoke with Steven and we talked about this European company that he says is both humble and extremely efficient in the world of puzzle entertainment. And how excited they are to be expanding their growth to the United States. Steven said that with Kappa they were seeking to grow by reaching new readers. And as with everything in the business, it all starts with great product. 

“Our team is working hard to refresh and expand our product offerings, and take advantage of winning products from other Keesing territories, so that we can expand our footprint in current retailers and break into new retailers,” Steven said. 

And Mr. Magazine™ says excellent, and welcome to the United States, Keesing. 

And now the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Steven Kotok, President & Managing Director of North America For Keesing Media Group. 

But first the sound-bites:

On his career penchant for working at European companies: It’s funny, I used to joke that I was a European’s idea of an American guy. (Laughs) I started at Dennis in 1994, so other than my time at the Wirecutter, which the founder was actually in Hawaii, I’ve worked 26 of the last 28 years for European companies. And it’s super, super simple really; I’m a consumer guy. I’m a reader-focused, consumer-revenue guy. And that’s really the European magazine model.

On the Dutch company, Keesing and its plans for the future: Keesing has pretty rapidly made acquisition after acquisition in Europe, where they are by far the largest puzzle magazine publisher in Europe  with very significant market share in a lot of their territories. They really have excellent focus; they know what they’re good at and they have a really impressive, kind of backend CMS that drives it, so they’re technologically driven.

On the growth potential for Kappa Books & Publishing (a company Keesing acquired) for 2023: A few things. First of all, Kappa has significantly run pretty lean over the years. They’ve cut about half their editorial group in the last five years, so the initial plan is really investing. We just hired two new editors, one started last week and one starts tomorrow. We’re recruiting an editorial director; we’re going to be significantly expanding our marketing retail sales side, so we think we can invest more in the products and invest more in getting those products to market. And we expect to see year-on-year growth.

On who his major competitor is in the marketplace: It’s really a two-player market; Penny Press runs an excellent business. They are the dominant player. They have more market share than Kappa does. And I think over the years they’ve invested more into the market. And Kappa, in some ways, is playing catch-up there. So it’s a two-player market and we see our ability to grow by putting more into it.

On how he plans on facing some of the challenges that 2022 has seen: First of all, there’s always headwinds in this market, so I think your perpetual question of what keeps you awake at night; I think at this point if people in this market can’t sleep now, they’re never going to be able to sleep because we’ve had every single thing thrown at us. And yes, the latest one is paper prices.

On whether he feels print magazines have become more of an habitual buy than an impulse buy: I think you saw a lot of impulse buying in the peak of the pandemic, because people were looking for more activities. But yes, I do think that a lot of print has become more of an habitual buy. It’s no surprise that before the Internet print may have served a hundred percent of the population and now it may be serving a smaller portion or a smaller portion of the population in a regular way.

On where he sees the future heading, in terms of the relationship between ink on paper and pixels on a screen: But in terms of the future, I think one of the biggest kind of fallacies is the idea that people are migrating from print to digital; when a print publisher tries to migrate people to a digital product or something. I think people are kind of moved like they’re going through a maze. There are hundreds of millions of people making billions of choices of what they want and what they don’t want.

On why Keesing is interested in the United States market: Keesing has really become the dominant publisher in Europe and this is where the next stage of growth is for them. The scale of the U.S. is so vast, individual retailers here that we work with are larger… it’s like they say, if California was its own economy it would be the fourth largest in the world. If a Walmart or a Kroger were its own country for puzzles, it would be the fourth largest territory in the world for puzzles. It’s just a great opportunity.

On whether he thinks he is one of the last remaining presidents, CEO’s of a magazine media company who believes in the printed word: I hate to put myself there, because I’ve never thought of myself as printed word or not printed word. I think this category, the ability to scribble on a page your crossword or something, your Sudoku, is a unique experience. But I don’t want to say that I don’t care because I really love printed products, but for me, I don’t get excited making a printed product. I get excited making something a consumer loves.

On what keeps him up at night: I’d say the new, more interesting thing is really employee engagement. What keeps me up at night is am I giving my employees a path for growth, especially the people newer to the business. And that’s something that wasn’t as much of a concern 10 or 20 years ago, but when you’re competing with VC backed startups and what not, you’re ability to make this an exciting job for your employees and let them know when we’ve won and what winning is and orienting them toward being excited about winning is something I think people in media need to spend a lot more time on.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Steven Kotok, President & Managing Director of North America For Keesing Media Group. 

Samir Husni: This is your third overseas company; somehow you’re a magnet for those companies, whether it’s Dennis, Bauer, and now Keesing from the Netherlands. What’s the attraction; what’s the allure? 

Steven Kotok: It’s funny, I used to joke that I was a European’s idea of an American guy. (Laughs) I started at Dennis in 1994, so other than my time at the Wirecutter, which the founder was actually in Hawaii, I’ve worked 26 of the last 28 years for European companies. And it’s super, super simple really; I’m a consumer guy. I’m a reader-focused, consumer-revenue guy. And that’s really the European magazine model. 

The American magazine model is overwhelmingly less traditional now on the advertising side. And if it wasn’t for a Dennis or a Bauer or a Keesing, I probably would have ended up in the book business honestly. It only means something to me if the reader and the consumer are getting excited. Getting a million people to buy something and then buy it again because they liked it, really excites me. Getting one person to sign on the dotted line for an ad schedule just doesn’t excite me in the same way. I just think the European business model is just a fit for me; not just for my tastes, but probably also for my skills. 

Samir Husni: Tell me a little bit more about the Dutch company Keesing. I know they acquired Kappa Publishing & Books and that they are in the braintainment business. Tell me a little more about them and their plan for what’s ahead.

Steven Kotok: Keesing has pretty rapidly made acquisition after acquisition in Europe, where they are by far the largest puzzle magazine publisher in Europe  with very significant market share in a lot of their territories. They really have excellent focus; they know what they’re good at and they have a really impressive, kind of backend CMS that drives it, so they’re technologically driven. 

But everywhere they’ve acquired a puzzle business they’ve invested in new editorial product and in their retail relationships. So the track record was just too attractive to pass up; just their level of focus and their level of success in this market. 

The puzzle market in the U.S. is a very stable market with a high degree of consumer wanted-ness. You’re not trying to push something onto the consumer; you’re really trying to produce something that there is a really great consumer demand for, so it’s really rewarding in that way. So it really is a good fit of market and company. And Kappa just has a lot of growth potential. 

Samir Husni: As we approach 2023, what’s the growth potential for Kappa? 

Steven Kotok: A few things. First of all, Kappa has significantly run pretty lean over the years. They’ve cut about half their editorial group in the last five years, so the initial plan is really investing. We just hired two new editors, one started last week and one starts tomorrow. We’re recruiting an editorial director; we’re going to be significantly expanding our marketing retail sales side, so we think we can invest more in the products and invest more in getting those products to market. And we expect to see year-on-year growth. 

Samir Husni: So in a way you’re going to be competing with your former job, because when you were at Bauer you also introduced a lot of puzzle magazines.

Steven Kotok: They’ll be competing with us. 

Samir Husni: (Laughs) So who’s your major competitor now in the marketplace?

Steven Kotok: It’s really a two-player market; Penny Press runs an excellent business. They are the dominant player. They have more market share than Kappa does. And I think over the years they’ve invested more into the market. And Kappa, in some ways, is playing catch-up there. So it’s a two-player market and we see our ability to grow by putting more into it. 

We have a lot of new product introductions coming down the line in 2023, introducing new products into the market. And we’re going to make a lot of tweaks to our existing product. 

Samir Husni: I just recently read a report that paper prices have gone up 250 percent, postage is also soaring. Of course, Kappa’s product is more single-copy sales than subscription, but how are you going to face those headwinds that have been prevalent in 2022?

Steven Kotok: First of all, there’s always headwinds in this market, so I think your perpetual question of what keeps you awake at night; I think at this point if people in this market can’t sleep now, they’re never going to be able to sleep because we’ve had every single thing thrown at us. And yes, the latest one is paper prices. 

It certainly reduces margins and you’ve seen that inflation in everything. If you’ve eaten in a restaurant lately, or just about everywhere. In every consumer good, unfortunately, the input inflation results in kind of a price inflation for the end user. And you’ve certainly seen that in magazines, but as long as there is that want. You know, we’d love to have lower paper prices and we’d love to have lower cover prices, I think everyone would be happier. It’s way more fun to sell more stuff at a lower price. 

But as long as that consumer want exists; we have a very loyal group who have stuck with us through price increases and that allows us to continue doing what we’re doing  in a solvent, sustainable way. 

So, it certainly hurts, but it’s long past time for publishers to be complaining about their market. We’ve been living that, and it’s something unlike a lot of the other challenges this market has faced, this is one that every single market and every single category faces. We’re not alone. You just have to adjust, and you don’t want to price out your long-time, loyal customers. You just need to charge a price that enables you to be a sustainable business. 

Samir Husni: You mentioned that the puzzle business has been a stable business with the audience. I can understand it when the puzzle magazine used to be .99 cents or $1.99 or even $2.99; it could still be described as an impulse buy. But now you’re looking at $4.99 and $5.99 per copy. Is there a change in the single-copy sales from being that impulse buy to more of an habitual buy or a wanted-ness buy?

Steven Kotok: I think you saw a lot of impulse buying in the peak of the pandemic, because people were looking for more activities. But yes, I do think that a lot of print has become more of an habitual buy. It’s no surprise that before the Internet print may have served a hundred percent of the population and now it may be serving a smaller portion or a smaller portion of the population in a regular way. 

So yes, I think a lot of puzzle buyers are habituated, but on the same side that gives you a level of brand loyalty that a lot of other consumer products would really love to have. But even if we enter a recession, four or five bucks is an impulse buy. I think that’s something that people know that they’re going to get a lot of value from. 

We have 160-page products that we’re selling for $5. I don’t know about you, but 160 pages of crossword puzzles is going to last me quite a long time. It’s probably one of the best bangs for your bucks in publishing compared to a 100-page book of photos that, while maybe it’s a keepsake, you’re going to browse through it and then it has sort of served its purpose. I think that’s why some of the more timely types of products are challenged. 

The puzzle market has really evergreen products and people really engage with them. It’s back mail restaurant days, there’s nothing you want to see more than an empty plate come back from the dining room. And there’s nothing you want to see more that one of your magazines scribbled

up every page with the crosswords, or the Word Search, or the Sudoku’s. So yes, I think we provide a ton of value because this is something that’s really used. It’s an interactive product. 

Samir Husni: You mentioned the word interactive, which digital stole from print. (Laughs) If you could put your futuristic hat on for a moment; we’ve seen some companies swear they’re going to be online because everyone is online, yet you mention that the puzzle market is stable. Where do you see the future heading, in terms of the relationship between ink on paper and pixels on a screen? 

Steven Kotok: My first job in magazines was digital, so I probably don’t think in terms of the print/digital divide as much as other people because I’ve always gone back and forth; my job before Bauer was digital. From a user perspective, there’s all different business models, but you’re producing a product you want to engage a user with. Whether it’s print or digital, I  don’t think is really the biggest factor in thinking about that business versus say the business model, is it consumer or advertising? 

But in terms of the future, I think one of the biggest kind of fallacies is the idea that people are migrating from print to digital; when a print publisher tries to migrate people to a digital product or something. I think people are kind of moved like they’re going through a maze. There are hundreds of millions of people making billions of choices of what they want and what they don’t want. 

And if you launch a digital product, you should be planning on winning wholly new consumers. If your brand recognition or the free advertising that you can provide, if that gives you a leg up with some people who are reading a print product, that’s great, but you really have to be competing out there just like launching a new magazine. Sure, there are brand extensions, People en Español probably had a better shot than some other celebrity title in español, but really there are no side projects in this business. You have to be competing just as hard as anyone. 

I think these print products have a very loyal audience. Kappa can definitely grow its market share. And as we saw during the pandemic, total puzzle purchases went up and the market share of the puzzle category has been growing within the print magazine category. 

But yes, you see something like Wordle; Wordle is a genius digital puzzle. And it really uses the digital medium. The fact that it’s a feedback of what you did in the first turn and the second turn and the third turn, so I expect there will be more innovation in digital and more great digital puzzle products. I don’t think it takes anything away from the print puzzle business any more than dessert takes away from dinner. They are just different categories with different purposes and whether you’re making the best dessert you can make or the best hamburger you can make, you really better be able to compete, not just because of your brand name or some free advertising. 

So, we expect to be in digital, maybe through acquisitions, maybe through launches, but we certainly aren’t doing it because we need to make up for print losses. The print business is a very successful business with very loyal readers, but if there is more we can do with our expertise in another market, that’s great too. But the idea of making up something that’s lost; no one ever really wins that way. You have to create something awesome, whether you’re building on success or building on decline. The consumer doesn’t care. The consumer just wants value for their money. 

Samir Husni: I know Keesing Media Group is acquiring companies, but why the United States market?

Steven Kotok: Keesing has really become the dominant publisher in Europe and this is where the next stage of growth is for them. The scale of the U.S. is so vast, individual retailers here that we work with are larger… it’s like they say, if California was its own economy it would be the fourth largest in the world. If a Walmart or a Kroger were its own country for puzzles, it would be the fourth largest territory in the world for puzzles. It’s just a great opportunity. 

And when you’re as good at something as Keesing is at the puzzle business, both on the production backend and on their ability to connect with consumers and understand them, you’d be crazy to not go for it. And that’s for any publisher; my old friend, Felix Dennis. The U.S. market is the big time. You really want to make it here both for pride and for the scale of opportunity. Keesing was humble and they really owned what they did in Europe and had enough for repeated success that they really made sure they can come into this market as the best in the world at what they do. 

Samir Husni: Are you one of the few remaining presidents, CEO’s of magazine media companies that believe in a future for the printed word? 

Steven Kotok: I hate to put myself there, because I’ve never thought of myself as printed word or not printed word. I think this category, the ability to scribble on a page your crossword or something, your Sudoku, is a unique experience. But I don’t want to say that I don’t care because I really love printed products, but for me, I don’t get excited making a printed product. I get excited making something a consumer loves. 

At Wirecutter, we really provided a great service that people got a lot out of and I’m just as happy to do that in digital as in print. Maybe I’m just agnostic about it; it’s where I see opportunity. And I think business model-wise, when you’re selling a physical product it facilitates the consumer revenue stream which is my affinity, expertise and interest. 

But you look at The Athletic, fabulous idea. I saw those guys and I thought wow, how bold. Subscription, my own little passion. They’re really providing something that, as a fan of Buffalo and Minnesota sports teams, my ability to get news and information was declining and they provide a great service. 

So if people are missing out on print or digital because of some preconceived notion, I think they’re missing the plot anyhow. You have to follow your consumer. It doesn’t start with what you want to do or what you want to make or the format you want to make it in. It starts with consumer need and then grows out of that. 

If there is a huge consumer demand for printed puzzle products, I want to be the best at it. But the day people want it in a different format or something, I’m very happy. I’m not going to be the last guy on the island defending it. It’s only fun for me to make stuff people like. I don’t need to make museum pieces just because I’m a loyalist to one way or another. 

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night these days?

Steven Kotok: What has always kept me up at night has been can we create something that a consumer wants and can we get in front of that consumer? In previous interviews I’ve always said that anyone who gets between you and your consumer, whether it’s Google or a wholesaler, should keep you up at night because just give me a fair shot with the consumer, but that’s kind of perpetual. 

I’d say the new, more interesting thing is really employee engagement. What keeps me up at night is am I giving my employees a path for growth, especially the people newer to the business. And that’s something that wasn’t as much of a concern 10 or 20 years ago, but when you’re competing with VC backed startups and what not, you’re ability to make this an exciting job for your employees and let them know when we’ve won and what winning is and orienting them toward being excited about winning is something I think people in media need to spend a lot more time on. 

And it’s not just print; in digital it’s just as hard. You talk to people, maybe some of your former students, where they’re kind of on the hamster wheel, churning out content, it’s hard to ever feel that kind of victory dance the way you could once upon a time. I really think helping your teams understand why you’re doing what you’re doing and what success looks like is more important than it has ever been in this business. 

Samir Husni: Thank you.

“We are definitely a different company from the one you knew in the past. We’re a digital and video forward company in all that we do. We have more brands and we’re about expanding those brands into the different platforms where our consumers are.”

“Reader’s Digest is still a very valued brand in all mediums. It’s still extremely strong in print; we’re really pleased with the performance of the magazine, but we’re equally thrilled with the digital performance which has been excellent.”

Meeting your audience where they are is the prime focus of president and CEO Bonnie Kintzer of TMB. It doesn’t matter whether that consumer wants you in print, digital, video or social, Bonnie is determined to bring TMB’s brands to the people they’re created for. 

I spoke with Bonnie recently and we talked about this new and improved TMB, with its digital and video-forward thinking all across its brands. It was an enlightening chat that brought her vision into perfect view, showing a CEO who is still a strong believer in print done right, but in all facets of the magazine industry, including every outlet a consumer might be utilizing.

Now, please enjoy the “Mr. Magazine™” interview with Bonnie Kintzer, president and CEO, TMB. 

But first the sound-bites:

On what is happening at TMB today: We are definitely a different company from the one you knew in the past. We’re a digital and video forward company in all that we do. We have more brands and we’re about expanding those brands into the different platforms where our consumers are.

On whether she ever questioned the light at the end of the tunnel as being an actual train: I’ve been here eight and a half years now, and it has obviously felt like much more than just one job during that period, and at the beginning there were definitely dark days. But I never stopped believing, because I believe in the power of brands and I knew that we would get through it.

On whether legacy brands such as Reader’s Digest are still important in this digital-video first environment:Reader’s Digest is still a very valued brand in all mediums. It’s still extremely strong in print; we’re really pleased with the performance of the magazine, but we’re equally thrilled with the digital performance which has been excellent.

On TMB’s most profitable brand: Our biggest brand is actually Taste of Home; it’s a powerhouse as you know. I still remember coming to the University of Mississippi and lo and behold, in no time Taste of Home magazines were gone. So, it didn’t matter whether you were a student or not, Taste of Home has a great fondness in people of all ages. So of course, the site is doing extremely well too. Taste of Home is our number one brand and our most profitable from a margin percentage as FailArmy.

On anything that hasn’t met her expectations: Obviously, the economy weighs heavy on all of us. And seeing some of the challenges that affect us now; we’re more ad-driven than we used to be. And that changes the kind of challenges that you have. I think the cost structure on the print side is terrifying; it’s obviously affecting the industry. I don’t think that there are any challenges that we have that the entire industry isn’t facing. I look at the minutes watched; I look at the audience online, things that show our content is still working and it’s still working. We’re definitely meeting the needs of the audience.

On the price of paper and the increased cost of printing and postage and how she’s handling these headwinds:Paper is less of an issue for us. Postage is a problem and also the supply chain, in terms of envelopes and things like that. We’re being very careful about what we spend our money on. We’re ordering things earlier than we used to just to cover ourselves for delays.

On whether she feels bookazines are changing the definition of what a magazine is: I feel like a bookazine is more akin to a book; it has its own cover and it’s in the magazine channel, but it’s something that people save forever. And I think that’s why the consumer is willing to spend the money for it, because it’s a soft-cover recipe book or whatever, so that works for us. Taste of Home is the only brand that we have in the bookazine market, because we believe that people really want these fine keepsakes.

On the ceiling for cover prices in these inflationary times: They will definitely let us know when we hit the ceiling, as they always do. (Laughs) But I think so far, consumers see a lot of value in the bookazines and that’s a real tribute to the editors and the art directors and what we’re creating and delivering to the consumer. It’s a very beautiful product.

On the future of some of their other brands: I think Birds & Blooms and Reader’s Digest in particular, would do well on the newsstand. We don’t have the kind of newsstand power that some other companies have, but I do believe they would do well because they both have very strong book businesses and I think the book and the bookazine businesses have commonality.

On the rumors that Country and Reminisce are folding: It’s not a rumor; we already announced it months ago. The last issues will come out in December and January. Having small titles with the economics is virtually impossible. So, we’re focusing on where the audiences are. We have huge audiences with Reader’s Digest, Family Handyman, Taste of Home and Birds & Blooms, so we will continue in print with those four brands and they all four have book businesses, and that’s very important to us.

On the advice she would give someone who wanted to launch a brand or a magazine: I don’t think you can launch a brand with only a magazine, that’s not possible. Perhaps if you could charge $60 per year, but that’s not our business model. If a magazine is going to work, I think that it has to be a part of a much broader digital and video strategy, certainly that’s what we’re seeing and what we’re committed to.

On any challenges she sees on the horizon and how she plans to overcome them: We just finished our three-year plan and we’re highly focused on critical areas of growth, which is more direct ad sales, which we’re doing very well with this year. We want to have more consumer revenue, particularly driven by affiliate. We saw a 40 percent increase in our October Prime Day, Amazon Prime Day, versus July. We absolutely beat the market and actually beat how Amazon did as a whole. So we believe our brands, because of the trust they hold, will yield a lot, in terms of affiliate revenue.

On whether her people are working back in the office or remotely: I’m in the office today in Manhattan and there’s one other person here, so that probably answers your question. (Laughs) We do have more people in Milwaukee and in L.A., and of course in Milwaukee we have the test kitchen and the photographers and video. And in L.A. we have our production studios for our streaming and our social, so those offices tend to have more people, but New York is definitely on an as needed basis.

On where she thinks the magazine industry as a whole is heading: I think there will be no such thing as a magazine company. I think magazines will be a wonderful part of our mix, but we will be media companies and we’ll be brand companies. All of those companies you mentioned care about their brands and consumers care about brands, so I think that we can all do extremely well as long as we focus on the audience. And we’ve said that from the beginning of time and the rest will follow.

On whether she feels TMB today is operating on a solid foundation: We’re absolutely on a solid foundation. We run a very disciplined business. My goal is to grow us, both organically and through acquisition. I think we have always been very honest about the challenges and have dealt with them head-on. I think anyone who looks at our record over the last eight years would agree with that. And we’ll continue to do that; to let data and discipline guide us and our consumer. So, I know we’re healthy and I think there’s a lot more upside for us.

On anything she’d like to add: Looking at us as a really well-rounded company, I think when you consider the hundreds of millions of consumers that we reach now through all these different mediums it’s  actually very inspiring and exciting to realize that brands can go into all of these places and that we should support that kind of growth. And we should always be looking at the new opportunities because there is just so much out there for our brands to jump into.

On any surprises up and coming for 2023: I hope that we’ll have another acquisition in 2023, I really do. I just met with a company this morning. It’s hard work finding the right acquisitions, but I hope that we’ll have something else to announce in 2023. That would make me very happy.

On what keeps her up at night: It’s always speed; are we moving fast enough? I think it’s a constant challenge of how much faster can we move and be sure that we’re doing all the right things. We want people to be engaged and to have great experiences, and I think those things will all move together, but I do always wonder if we could move faster while being sure we’re doing the best and most that we can.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Bonnie Kintzer, president and CEO, TMB. 

Samir Husni: Many things have been happening with Trusted Media Brands, or as they’re called now, TMB, can you give me an update about what’s going on today?

Bonnie Kintzer: We are definitely a different company from the one you knew in the past. We’re a digital and video forward company in all that we do. We have more brands and we’re about expanding those brands into the different platforms where our consumers are. 

If you think about the acquisition of Jukin one year ago, it was a major transformational acquisition. We’ve had an excellent integration of the two companies, definitely far exceeding my goals. And we are looking at growing the Pet Collective and FailArmy; we just launched Family Handyman in streaming with “At Home with Family Handyman.” So we’re really taking the assets of each company and bringing it to bear on the other brands. And it’s working quite well.

Samir Husni: When you look at the accomplishments since you took over the company, was there ever a moment where you questioned whether the light at the end of the tunnel was a train or not?

Bonnie Kintzer: (Laughs) I’ve been here eight and a half years now, and it has obviously felt like much more than just one job during that period, and at the beginning there were definitely dark days. But I never stopped believing, because I believe in the power of brands and I knew that we would get through it. 

I obviously took over a company that was very broken, but those days are in the past. I don’t forget them, but we paid up all of our debt in 2015 and I feel like ever since then it’s just been very exciting to have the top line growth and the bottom line growth and to be entering new businesses and have a much more diversified business than when I first got here. 

Samir Husni: You have brands that have celebrated 100 years, such as Reader’s Digest; what is the future of such legacy brands? Or are brands still that important in this digital and video first venture?

Bonnie Kintzer: Reader’s Digest is still a very valued brand in all mediums. It’s still extremely strong in print; we’re really pleased with the performance of the magazine, but we’re equally thrilled with the digital performance which has been excellent. 

So we look at the brands across all platforms and yes, print is a smaller percentage of our business, but we have a lot of print readers, just like we have a lot of people coming to our sites; we have over 100 million visits to our sites every month, so we have a lot to be proud of and it goes across all brands. On the social side; we have over 215 million social followers across all of our brands. We have over 10 million newsletter subscribers; we have 10 billion minutes watched per year on our streaming, so we are reaching audiences where they are and so it’s not about looking backward, it’s very much about looking forward. 

Samir Husni: In the hierarchy of things, is it Reader’s Digest, Taste of Home…

Bonnie Kintzer: I love all my children equally. (Laughs) But our biggest brand is actually Taste of Home; it’s a powerhouse as you know. I still remember coming to the University of Mississippi and lo and behold, in no time Taste of Home magazines were gone. So, it didn’t matter whether you were a student or not, Taste of Home has a great fondness in people of all ages. So of course, the site is doing extremely well too. Taste of Home is our number one brand; our most profitable from a margin percentage as FailArmy.

FailArmy is such a beloved brand; it’s very funny and well-watched on streaming and social. And close behind that is the Pet Collective, which the world needs to look at more fun and silly animals; it makes you feel good. So, they’re all important.

Samir Husni: Has there been anything that hasn’t met your expectations? Any pitfalls on the horizon? 

Bonnie Kintzer: Obviously, the economy weighs heavy on all of us. And seeing some of the challenges that affect us now; we’re more ad-driven than we used to be. And that changes the kind of challenges that you have. I think the cost structure on the print side is terrifying; it’s obviously affecting the industry. I don’t think that there are any challenges that we have that the entire industry isn’t facing. I look at the minutes watched; I look at the audience online, things that show our content is still working and it’s still working. We’re definitely meeting the needs of the audience. 

On the revenue side, of course we’re seeing some hits because of the CPM’s, but certain things are out of our control. We have to move forward with the things that are within our control and make sure that we continue to deliver the right content to the right people at the right time.

Samir Husni: You still have large circulation magazines in print and of course the headwinds of 2022 were the price of paper and the increased cost of printing and the postage; how are you handling those headwinds?

Bonnie Kintzer: Paper is less of an issue for us. Postage is a problem and also the supply chain, in terms of envelopes and things like that. We’re being very careful about what we spend our money on. We’re ordering things earlier than we used to just to cover ourselves for delays. 

And we’re really transparent with our staff of what those challenges are and we’re addressing whatever is within our power, but it is a real challenge. The market conditions for print are a real challenge, but you have to keep your eyes opened and make tough decisions and that’s what we’re doing, much like our competitors are. 

Samir Husni: If you go to a newsstand today, it looks as though the bookazines or SIP’s are driving the newsstands. And with Taste of Home, you have the fall collection, the holiday issue, I mean, you name it, they’re out there. Are bookazines changing the definition of what a magazine is? Do you consider them magazines or something else?

Bonnie Kintzer: I feel like a bookazine is more akin to a book; it has its own cover and it’s in the magazine channel, but it’s something that people save forever. And I think that’s why the consumer is willing to spend the money for it, because it’s a soft-cover recipe book or whatever, so that works for us. Taste of Home is the only brand that we have in the bookazine market, because we believe that people really want these fine keepsakes.

Samir Husni: Do you feel the cover prices of some of these bookazines are too much in these inflationary times? Where is the ceiling?

Bonnie Kintzer: They will definitely let us know when we hit the ceiling, as they always do. (Laughs) But I think so far, consumers see a lot of value in the bookazines and that’s a real tribute to the editors and the art directors and what we’re creating and delivering to the consumer. It’s a very beautiful product. 

Samir Husni: What about the rest of the brands you have?

Bonnie Kintzer: I think Birds & Blooms and Reader’s Digest in particular, would do well on the newsstand. We don’t have the kind of newsstand power that some other companies have, but I do believe they would do well because they both have very strong book businesses and I think the book and the bookazine businesses have commonality. 

With Birds & Blooms, we do an annual hummingbird book that does very well; we do annual collections that also do very well, so I think that if we could find a way to make the economics of the newsstand work, we could in fact do well with consumers for Reader’s Digest and Birds & Blooms. 

Samir Husni: What about the rest of the titles? Are the rumor mills correct when they hint that you are folding titles like Country and Reminisce?

Bonnie Kintzer: It’s not a rumor; we already announced it months ago. The last issues will come out in December and January. Having small titles with the economics is virtually impossible. So, we’re focusing on where the audiences are. We have huge audiences with Reader’s Digest, Family Handyman, Taste of Home and Birds & Blooms, so we will continue in print with those four brands and they all four have book businesses, and that’s very important to us. 

We look for brands that are in multiple streams of business and that’s what we’re focusing on. Family Handyman is of course our poster child now, with magazines, books, digital site and streaming, so that’s our first brand to be in all four of those businesses. Taste of Home doesn’t have a streaming channel yet, but obviously it’s very big digitally and socially, and in magazines and books. And it’s the same for Reader’s Digest. So we look for where the opportunity is and the consumer tells us where that opportunity is. 

Samir Husni: What advice would you give someone today who came to you with an idea for a brand or a magazine?

Bonnie Kintzer: I don’t think you can launch a brand with only a magazine, that’s not possible. Perhaps if you could charge $60 per year, but that’s not our business model. If a magazine is going to work, I think that it has to be a part of a much broader digital and video strategy, certainly that’s what we’re seeing and what we’re committed to. 

Samir Husni: You’ve always been a believer in print done right. As we move toward 2023, what are some of the challenges you see on the horizon and how will you overcome them?

Bonnie Kintzer: We just finished our three-year plan and we’re highly focused on critical areas of growth, which is more direct ad sales, which we’re doing very well with this year. We want to have more consumer revenue, particularly driven by affiliate. We saw a 40 percent increase in our October Prime Day, Amazon Prime Day, versus July. We absolutely beat the market and actually beat how Amazon did as a whole. So we believe our brands, because of the trust they hold, will yield a lot, in terms of affiliate revenue.

And lastly, but we always start with it, is more content and more distribution outlets to more people. We’re a content company, so we want to get our stuff out there. The three things that we say we need to do right in order to be successful with those three goals are: 

Number one, data. Making sure that we have the right data and we know how to use it, which is hard work. Number two, we call it our wheel, but how content goes across the wheel of all of our businesses and how audience goes across that wheel. If you think about our business, we own our websites and we own our magazine relationships, but we don’t own social or streaming. And yet, we want to have a relationship with consumers all across that wheel, so that’s very important, in terms of just our success. And then lastly, it’s the people; it’s all about the people and making sure that we attract and retain the right people and we do spend a lot of time on that.

Samir Husni: Speaking of people, are your people back in the office or still working remotely?

Bonnie Kintzer: I’m in the office today in Manhattan and there’s one other person here, so that probably answers your question. (Laughs) We do have more people in Milwaukee and in L.A., and of course in Milwaukee we have the test kitchen and the photographers and video. And in L.A. we have our production studios for our streaming and our social, so those offices tend to have more people, but New York is definitely on an as needed basis. 

Business is going well, so we’re not mandating it, but I certainly hope people will start to come up soon. We’re having a couple of reunion days soon in all of our offices, trying to woo people back with free massages and cocktails. So I think we’ll have a couple of days with a lot of people. 

Samir Husni: If you look at the magazine media scene as a whole, you can count the major companies now on one hand. Where do you think the industry is heading?

Bonnie Kintzer: I think there will be no such thing as a magazine company. I think magazines will be a wonderful part of our mix, but we will be media companies and we’ll be brand companies. All of those companies you mentioned care about their brands and consumers care about brands, so I think that we can all do extremely well as long as we focus on the audience. And we’ve said that from the beginning of time and the rest will follow. 

Audiences dictate decisions of what platforms we’re on and how much money we spend, so I have confidence in all of those companies to do that. 

Samir Husni: Do you think TMB today is on a solid foundation adding to the future or there are some cracks here and there?

Bonnie Kintzer: We’re absolutely on a solid foundation. We run a very disciplined business. My goal is to grow us, both organically and through acquisition. I think we have always been very honest about the challenges and have dealt with them head-on. I think anyone who looks at our record over the last eight years would agree with that. And we’ll continue to do that; to let data and discipline guide us and our consumer. So, I know we’re healthy and I think there’s a lot more upside for us. 

Samir Husni: Is there anything you’d like to add?

Bonnie Kintzer: Looking at us as a really well-rounded company, I think when you consider the hundreds of millions of consumers that we reach now through all these different mediums it’s  actually very inspiring and exciting to realize that brands can go into all of these places and that we should support that kind of growth. And we should always be looking at the new opportunities because there is just so much out there for our brands to jump into. 

Samir Husni: Anything in the hopper; any surprises for 2023?

Bonnie Kintzer: I hope that we’ll have another acquisition in 2023, I really do. I just met with a company this morning. It’s hard work finding the right acquisitions, but I hope that we’ll have something else to announce in 2023. That would make me very happy. 

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night these days?

Bonnie Kintzer: It’s always speed; are we moving fast enough? I think it’s a constant challenge of how much faster can we move and be sure that we’re doing all the right things. We want people to be engaged and to have great experiences, and I think those things will all move together, but I do always wonder if we could move faster while being sure we’re doing the best and most that we can. 

Samir Husni: Thank you.