Mr. Magazine

When you hear the names Robert Priest and Grace Lee, the first thing that comes to mind is a great design team. Between the two of them they have designed, redesigned and reinvented an endless number of magazines. But, today, in addition to their design work, they have new titles: Robert Priest, founder and editor and Grace Lee, founder and creative director of a new magazine of their own creation 8by8: The Magazine The Beautiful Game Deserves.

I asked them to share with me the pleasures of moving beyond design into creating and editing an entire magazine. Last Friday I posted the Mr. Magazine™ Minute with the two of them, today you have the entire intriguing Mr. Magazine™ Interview with Robert Priest and Grace Lee. Get ready, set and go…

As with any Mr. Magazine™ Interview, first the sound-bites followed by the lightly edited full transcript. Enjoy.

The Sound-Bites:

On what 8by8 is trying to accomplish:
From our point of view, we’re trying to have a voice in football — world, global football. We’re trying to make our way into that arena. I feel that we’ve got something to say. There’s a lot that goes on in soccer that’s underreported. There are some major issues in here, even about the World Cup. And I feel like we have this other dimension that’s our bread and butter, we make things look good.

On the use of illustrations in 8by8:
I felt that by adding the additional element of illustration where it’s really a political commentary that the idea of it goes back to classic cartoon where you sort of have a dig at something. It allows you to say something that you can’t ever get in a photograph. You can say that diving is an issue or you can say something about a personality without being mean-spirited, but you can just say something and people will just kind of subliminally go “Oh yeah, of course.”

On why a creative director has become the editor in chief of a soccer magazine:
Also, you know, there’s that thing where I’ve worked on men’s magazines and political magazines and business magazines and women’s magazines, but I’ve never had a chance to do a sports magazine. So this is my chance.

On whether or not 8by8 is a vanity project:
No, not at all. We’re in this to make money. We’ve had this discussion and it’s a good question. It’s not a vanity project at all. It’s something we know about and it’s something that we know we can make look good and I think once you get six or 10 or whatever it ends up being on your table; I think this is going to be a really nice body of work.

On the expensive cover price ($15.99):
You’re going to eliminate some people that would like it but they can’t manage that — it’s true. It’s an audience of people who are, we imagine at that price, going to be well-educated, prepared to pay that kind of money and love the thrill of the game and the look of it. But we do know that and we do know that we are going to miss out on some.

On the lost art of illustration in magazines:
It is, but you know for the longest time it also says now, modern…For me the way we’re assigning illustration with the combination of veterans and young kids at our school, I’m very conscious that they are modern-looking, energetic, colorful, the likenesses have to be perfect. Then you can start making a point, as I said the idea of political commentary through illustration. And I feel like it again separates us from literally every magazine because hardly any magazine uses illustration anymore or if they do it’s for decoration and there’s no decoration here — it’s pure editorial commentary.

On a detail-heavy magazine like 8by8 appealing to the current ADD generation:
I feel like that it fits with the ADD audience. Most of our articles are 1,500 to 2,000 words; they don’t go on for 12,000 words. And then the pacing of it is very exciting. It’s not a traditional magazine in the sense that there’s a front of the book and then there’s a well and then there’s a back of the book. It’s almost wall-to-wall feature.

On attempting to duplicate ink on paper with digital:
The simple duplication doesn’t have the emotional pull for me that that does. I can see the same image on the screen and I appreciate it but there’s something that literally drives me — it’s like a drug — to this. So I personally don’t think so, but I’m sort of getting up there so I’m quite prepared to be wrong on this.

On the future of 8by8:
This would be an all-out brand and maybe do other extensions of sports magazines off of this. We would like to up the frequency, we would like to have a daily web presence, we would like to have a TV channel and we would like to have products.

On the future of magazines:
I think the future is where each magazine is a kind of club. You’re a member of 8by8 and for that you get this gorgeous magazine, information off the web, you go to their parties — only subscribers go to their parties and events — information comes to you as if you’re just a very select person.

On the challenges 8by8 is facing:
Grace Lee: Distribution is one, marketing is the other, getting it out there, getting people to see it and know about it. That’s extremely hard I think. There’s a lot of word and mouth and all of that, but how do you get it to a bigger audience. You can create fantastic products but if you can’t market them you’re not going to do well.

Robert Priest: We’re being pretty aggressive and we’re learning a lot about social media and what that can bring to us. We’re learning how that works. It’s fascinating really, isn’t it? That’s it — we need to get it out there, we need for everybody to know about it.

And now the lightly edited transcript of Mr. Magazine’s™ Interview with Robert Priest and Grace Lee of 8by8 magazine

Samir Husni: Last year it was Howler, this year it is 8by8. Tell me about the evolution of Robert Priest and Grace Lee from Howler to 8by8.

Robert Priest: The genesis of it is that we wanted to start a magazine here at Priest and Grace when we first started our company. We looked around and we knew we wanted to do a soccer magazine or a site but something soccer related and we went to England and we looked for editors and it was just a long process and we never found anybody who was good. And we found these two youngish guys – George Karushy and Mark Purvey.

Grace Lee: Well what happened was we were like, forget it, and let’s just start something. So we remembered George, who was an intern at Portfolio — we were both at Condè Nast Portfolio. And he helped coach one of Robert’s soccer teams. And we’re like he’s a soccer guy, let’s contact him and see if he can help start producing some content with us. We contacted him and he said that’s strange let’s meet because I have an idea too. So when we met he wanted to start an American soccer magazine and we said that’s funny because we want to start more of a European soccer magazine and we thought we could combine the two and that’s how we started.

RP: So we designed the identity for it, we designed the logo.

GL: The website, all the identity pieces. They had nothing to do with the decisions on any visual aspects of it. It was completely ours.

RP: It just turned out that it just wasn’t a good fit for any of us really so we ended up deciding to part company. As you probably know we did very well with the design in terms of shows and awards and stuff like that. But we still wanted to continue, but we wanted to change the editorial content to more European, not to deny America at all — the US men’s national team and some MLS for sure, but we wanted to work with the content being some of the very best soccer you can get. And so it ends up being a largely European, South American content and as you know you can do a publication in more or less any country about anything. It works fine. What would you say the percentages of overseas orders are, Grace?

GL: I would say about 40 percent which is, I think, kind of unusual.

RP: But I think again it’s early days for us and we’re getting the word out, we’re progressive on social media and all of that.

SH: Howler looked great. It felt great. It’s sort of like what ink on paper is supposed to be in this day and age, in this digital age. Tell me a little bit about 8by8. Now you are in control of the editorial and in control of the design. What’s the mission? What are you trying to accomplish?

RP: From our point of view, we’re trying to have a voice in football — world, global football. We’re trying to make our way into that arena. I feel that we’ve got something to say. There’s a lot that goes on in soccer that’s underreported. There are some major issues in here even about the World Cup. And I feel like we have this other dimension that’s our bread and butter, we make things look good.

It’s not an all action soccer magazine, it’s a sort of selected action. Every photograph is curated. I think I looked at 500,000 photos acting as the photo editor. I feel that with that kind of attention to detail I want to bring this sort of romance back into soccer but I also want to address the issues within soccer. I felt that by adding the additional element of illustration where it’s really a political commentary that the idea of it goes back to classic cartoon where you sort of have a dig at something. It allows you to say something that you can’t ever get in a photograph. You can say that diving is an issue or you can say something about a personality without being mean-spirited but you can just say something and people will just kind of subliminally go “Oh yeah of course.”

And so to me it’s about the personalities of the game. I sort of grew up with this weird magazine called Charles Buchan Football Monthly and my first impressions of that were that all these portraits, really kind of bad headshots of people coming at you all the time, well that really made an impression on me — just to look at the guy’s face who’s so dazzling on the field and just read into his personality. That’s what this is, it’s kind of pushing that further, commenting on the personality, it’s giving everybody sort of a straight look, that feeling of “Who is this guy?”

SH: Everybody who I told that I was going to interview Robert Priest said, “You mean the creative director?” But I said he’s also the editor in chief. How has that transformation gone? Did it come naturally or did Grace help?

GL: No. I’m not a soccer fanatic, I don’t know very much about soccer. But when it comes to making a magazine that’s what I love to do. So in terms of editor in chief that’s his entire background — he’s obsessed with soccer and I don’t think anybody would of known about it but he knows more than most people so it was a natural progression.

RP: Also, you know, there’s that thing where I’ve worked on men’s magazines and political magazines and business magazines and women’s magazines but I’ve never had a chance to do a sports magazine. So this is my chance.

And then beyond that I have to say it was a kind of shock to be doing the editorial assigning and as much as when you read stories by writers and then you get something that isn’t as good back, the notion of whipping a story into shape is so much more important than I ever imagined and thankfully we’ve been very well supported by a couple of line editors who are geniuses so that we are in good shape right there.

But I don’t presume to go too deep with writers with the structure of the stories — my line editors do that — it’s more to do with the overarching feeling and the idea and the writing, of course. If the writing is crappy, and a lot of soccer writing is, that’s what I want to avoid.

SH: So is this more of a pursuit of a passion, a pursuit of a dream rather than a business model, that you hope to be rich and famous some day?

RP: No, not at all. We’re in this to make money. We’ve had this discussion and it’s a good question. It’s not a vanity project at all. It’s something we know about and it’s something that we know we can make look good and I think once you get six or 10 or whatever it ends up being on your table; I think this is going to be a really nice body of work. But we’re relentless about making sure this is a success. And that’s not that easy. Obviously starting a new magazine — you are the one person in America who knows the success rate and it’s pretty low. But we’re completely convinced that there are enough people here, let alone the rest of the world, to support this easily and we’ve just got to reach them.

SH: A cover price of $15.99 is pretty hefty.

RP: You’re going to eliminate some people that would like it but they can’t manage that — it’s true. It’s an audience of people who are, we imagine at that price, going to be well-educated, prepared to pay that kind of money and love the thrill of the game and the look of it.

But we do know that and we do know that we are going to miss out on some. We’ve noticed a lot of other magazines are being highly priced right now, sort of indie magazines. We feel that the value within this is more pronounced than some of the magazines out there that can sell for $25.

So we feel like we’ve put a lot of energy into it and we think the readers can understand that. That’s certainly the first response, that they can’t believe the amount of detail. It is pricey and we are going to lose a certain number of readers, but the readers who get it really enjoy it and I feel like there are enough of them.

SH: Do you feel like this is the future of print — for ink on paper we have to go after the customers who count rather than just counting customers?

RP: The idea of an almost limited run with a high-quality product perhaps oversized on very nice paper can be the future if it’s backed up with other things. We’re not going to get to a site for a bit, but we are going to back it up with an app. We go back and forth on a daily basis. We have the app done but we just want to make sure that it makes sense. Once you start you can’t go back. That’s a thing a lot of magazines are facing right now because I think they would go back.

GL: I don’t know if they’re even monetizing off of it.

SH: You mentioned in the beginning the use of illustration — we used to say that if you can’t get a real picture, use an illustration. Your concept is different — it’s the opposite. Why?

RP: First of all, I love illustration. I acknowledge the fact that illustration has been going downhill, not downhill, but it’s been less used in major publications. It’s just a fact.

GL: When we’ve worked on redesigns for major publications the editor always wants photographs because it says realism, which is sad.

RP: It is, but you know for the longest time it also says now, modern. For me the way we’re assigning illustration with the combination of veterans and young kids at our school, I’m very conscious that they are modern-looking, energetic, and colorful, the likenesses have to be perfect. Then you can start making a point, as I said, the idea of political commentary through illustration. And I feel like it again separates us from literally every magazine because hardly any magazine uses illustration anymore or if they do it’s for decoration and there’s no decoration here — it’s pure editorial commentary.

SH: What is the reaction so far — what’s some of the feedback?

RP: 99 percent positive. To be frank, early on people were confusing why we looked like the first two Howlers. Because Howler now doesn’t look anything like us. Once you’ve done a few issues nobody’s going to worry — if they want to buy either they will.

I think it’s a very precise look and it kind of talks about where Grace and I work together. It’s very precise work and very detailed work. I feel like that just seems like it’s thought out — it certainly is. But the detail is really worked on a lot. All the facts, all the information, it’s a lot of content.

SH: Some will say Grace and Robert are wasting their time. We have an ADD generation — they don’t pay attention to details; their attention span is roughly 2.5 seconds. So who is your audience?

RP: I feel like that’s not the audience that we’ve got. For instance, there’s that timeline about Arsenal that people have been lapping up. Just as recently as this morning someone wrote that they had spent nearly the whole day just wading through it, reliving their past and understanding their further past and understanding their future. I feel like that’s fine. Not everything is so detailed…

GL: I feel like that fits with the ADD audience. Most of our articles are 1,500 to 2,000 words; they don’t go on for 12,000 words. And then the pacing of it is very exciting. It’s not a traditional magazine in the sense that there’s a front of the book and then there’s a well and then there’s a back of the book. It’s almost wall-to-wall feature.

RP: It’s really important, the order of the pages, and I know it is with other magazines but I’ve always felt that I was as good as anybody in terms of the pacing. I remember GQ with Art Cooper, he always used to really listen to my ideas of which order the stories should be because I always felt that I just had that natural sense about that. And I think it really helps.

SH: One of the things that struck me when you told me that you’re doing this; now you have to deal with distributors you have to deal with this and that. What happened to the Robert Priest and Grace who used to enjoy the design and the beauty and now they have to deal with the ugly part of the magazine business. How is that?

RP: Grace really is the business brain. She’s a very quick learner and we’ve learned a lot really, haven’t we, Grace?

GL: We learned a lot the first time around when we did Howler and I streamlined it the second time around, knowing all the things that we shouldn’t have done, and how to make it easier on ourselves. But personally the ugly part is the part I love. I love doing that stuff and figuring how to get it out there, why it works, building the website, how do we distribute. I love knowing all that stuff.

Then I love designing on top of it but I love doing that part of it. To know only one aspect of the magazine you feel so sheltered, when you come out you realize there are so many things to doing — the physical shipment and storing that nobody ever thinks of.

SH: Do you think you can ever duplicate the beauty of design on ink on paper in the digital world and will it have the same lasting impact, the same lasting effect?

RP: The simple duplication doesn’t have the emotional pull for me that that does. I can see the same image on the screen and I appreciate it, but there’s something that literally drives me — it’s like a drug — to this. So I personally don’t think so but I’m sort of getting up there so I’m quite prepared to be wrong on this.

GL: I feel the same way. I’m drawn toward print too and when we are duplicating it for the iPad it looks great, but the size is so constrained and then the movement and the restrictions. You can do a lot more and add interactivity and video and sound and stuff like that but it still doesn’t feel the same to me either.

And it’s interesting because the only thing I do read on my mobile stuff is The New York Times, which is very disposable, and New York Magazine and The New Yorker and that’s about it. I love the designs of Wired just like everyone else but when I see it on the iPad it falls flat. So I’ll never ever purchase it for my personal use so it makes me wonder if I won’t even use it, why anyone would purchase our iPad version of it. We’re definitely going to do a digital version of it, but I just don’t know if it’s going to live in an app or if it’s going to live on the web. That’s where we are.

SH: Will you also charge $16 for the app?

GL: Yeah, I will actually. Because the content is the same and like anybody in the publishing industry knows, doing a magazine on your own is incredibly expensive, especially if you don’t have the volumes that the bigger companies have. It will be free to subscribers. People think the money in distribution and paper costs a lot; actually it’s more content than anything.

SH: If you can put your futuristic hat on — first on 8by8…

GL: This would be an all-out brand and maybe do other extensions of sports magazines off of this. We would like to up the frequency, we would like to have a daily web presence, we would like to have a TV channel and we would like to have products.

SH: In general what is the future of magazines in this country?

RP: I think the future is where each magazine is a kind of a club. You’re a member of 8by8 and for that you get this gorgeous magazine, information off the web, you go to their parties — only subscribers go to their parties and events — information comes to you as if you’re just a very select person. I’ve heard this from Condè Nast, the idea that Vogue is suddenly this big printed magazine on even better paper than this and it’s a small run and you get it and you get to meet Anna Winter, you’re at the party, you’re meeting the models, you’re meeting the various people in the issue. It becomes something else.

It is a brand but I think that brand is going to become more spread out. I feel like print will always be there but I think it will become a component of the brand.

SH: What’s the biggest challenge you’re facing?

RP: You talked about it yourself. I think distribution is the biggest challenge.

GL: Distribution is one, marketing is the other, getting it out there, getting people to see it and know about it. That’s extremely hard I think. There’s a lot of word of mouth and all of that, but how do you get it to a bigger audience. You can create fantastic products but if you can’t market them you’re not going to do well.

RP: We’re being pretty aggressive and we’re learning a lot about social media and what that can bring to us. We’re learning how that works. It’s fascinating really, isn’t it? That’s it — we need to get it out there, we need for everybody to know about it.

SH: My last question for you — what keeps you up at night?

RP: I’m driven crazy by contributors who don’t call me back within 10 seconds. I want to know that they’re going to write that story or they’re going to do that illustration for me. It drives me absolutely bonkers.

GL: I think it’s finding time to do this honestly. It’s been great because we’ve been getting a lot of recognition and jobs from it, but at the same time I want to do this and we’re so stretched thin. But at the same time I guess that’s a good problem.

SH: Thank you and good luck.

“You know, you may serve audiences with multiple different kinds of approaches that work for them at different points in their day. They read and encounter The New York Times on their mobile phone and it’s different than the paper they consume in print in the morning over their coffee and it’s different than how they read it at work. And I think that’s a great thing.”
-Susan Glasser

It may be the “Launch Issue” of Politico magazine, but it looks, reads and feels like a 50th anniversary issue. It’s not everyday a new magazine comes along and captivates me like Politico Magazine did. It feels like an established magazine that has reached its prime. It is already on the top of the mountain.

However the question on how to integrate a print magazine that features long-form journalism and a broad spectrum of topics that appeal not only to the core Washington audience, but also international and non-political readers around the country, into Politico’s already successful repertoire remains editor Susan Glasser’s ambitious goal.

And she uses the word ambitious many times throughout our interview, and with good reason. Giving birth to a political print magazine that’s lofty goal is to become the leading, dominant news outlet for coverage of Washington, politics and power-at-large, is definitely ambitious, but certainly attainable, especially with the enthusiasm and dedication of Politico Magazine’s Editor, Susan Glasser.

So get ready for an uplifting and energetic conversation as Mr. Magazine™ interviews Politico Magazine’s Editor, Susan Glasser. And enjoy digital/print integration at its best!

But first the sound-bites:

On why it took the industry so long to discover digital and print can coexist successfully: For too long people greeted the rise of the Internet and digital technology in a very zero sum way. The rise of the Internet meant the decline of print. And clearly we have seen the decline of print, but I think Politico is a good example of how we all need to be thinking in a much more – not platform agnostic way, but multiplatform way and reaching audiences in a variety of different ways.

On the genesis behind Politico Magazine: If Politico’s transparent ambition is to own the Washington conversation and to be the leading, dominant news outlet for coverage of Washington, politics and power-at-large, to do so I think this kind of content is an important component of that.

On the most pleasant surprise since the magazine’s launch: You know I was very excited about Glenn Thrush’s cover piece in the first issue of the print magazine “Locked in the Cabinet,” a very ambitious piece of reporting with 7,500 words, probably one of the longest stories that Politico has ever run.

On the biggest obstacle the magazine’s launch faced: Well, this was a very ambitious project that we’re doing with a very small start-up staff. It’s a terrific group of people, but it’s really small. We got this project up and running and we were adding people and throwing them into it as we were hurdling down the path toward launch.

On what keeps her up at night: Issues number two through the rest of my life. It’s an ambitious project to keep going at this pace and I want for it to keep getting better and better.

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ Interview with Susan Glasser, Editor of Politico

Samir Husni: Politico was one of the first entities from the beginning that was both print and digital and now the magazine. Why do you think it took the industry so long to discover that the two can work together, rather than against each other?

Susan Glasser: I agree with the framing of your question; I mean I totally agree with it, as a matter of fact. For too long people greeted the rise of the Internet and digital technology in a very zero sum way. The rise of the Internet meant the decline of print. And clearly we have seen the decline of print, but I think Politico is a good example of how we all need to be thinking in a much more – not platform agnostic way, but multiplatform way and reaching audiences in a variety of different ways.

I think most publishing companies have moved in that direction and I’m delighted about that. You know, you may serve audiences with multiple different kinds of approaches that work for them at different points in their day. They read and encounter The New York Times on their mobile phone and it’s different than the paper they consume in print in the morning over their coffee and it’s different than how they read it at work. And I think that’s a great thing.

Samir Husni: Earlier in the year Politico Pro was launched and now Politico magazine; can you tell me what the idea is; what’s the genesis behind Politico magazine?

Susan Glasser: I do believe there’s a genuine opportunity after a number of years that people are definitely pulling back and retrenching and not producing as much great ambitious original journalism on big subjects. There’s certainly an opportunity to come in and set up the flag and say in addition to living in the 24 hour news cycle and aiming to drive the conversation there that there are opportunities to do longer, bigger, deeper report-to-projects and magazine articles that exist outside of that news cycle and that exist in a way to set the agenda as well as react to it.

And if Politico’s transparent ambition is to own the Washington conversation and to be the leading, dominant news outlet for coverage of Washington, politics and power-at-large, to do so I think this kind of content is an important component of that. And so it’s a platform for great outside writers and thinkers. The war of ideas is a big part of the daily combat of Washington. You need those outside writers and thinkers and that conversation existing under your umbrella. So that’s one aspect of Politico magazine.

Samir Husni: What’s a day in the life of Susan, especially since you’re updating the magazine every single day?

Susan Glasser: It’s a very ambitious project and we’re just getting used to keeping the plane in the air; now that we’ve built it, we have to fly it. And that’s definitely challenging.

The flip side is it’s great to have such a wonderful and adaptable new tool. I’m so thrilled about the magazine platform that we’ve built on the website. I think it’s beautiful; I think it’s a showcase for big impactful content and big stunning visuals and we’re really trying to signify to readers in every way possible that this is a different environment; this is a new kind of Politico for you to experience. In addition to – you came for all this great news and up-to-the-minute information and agenda-setting beat coverage of Congress, the White House or healthcare, but here is a space where there’s going to be a terrific cover story every day and three or four interesting things to go around it and I think that’s a cool model.

Samir Husni: What has been the most pleasant surprise since you launched the magazine that came your way?

Susan Glasser: You know I was very excited about Glenn Thrush’s cover piece in the first issue of the print magazine “Locked in the Cabinet,” a very ambitious piece of reporting with 7,500 words, probably one of the longest stories that Politico has ever run.

And it turns out that that kind of great journalism filled with new information really cracked the code on the often opaque White House by coming at it from a totally different perspective, that of the cabinet. So I knew it was great journalism, but I was really delighted to see that it broke through as well and really took off with audiences and readers too. That is also one of the most read stories in Politico of the year, with over a million readers. I knew it was a great piece, but it was certainly a surprise to me to see how well it connected with people and how big it went.

Samir Husni: And what was the biggest obstacle you had to face?

Susan Glasser: Well, this was a very ambitious project that we’re doing with a very small start-up staff. It’s a terrific group of people, but it’s really small. We got this project up and running and we were adding people and throwing them into it as we were hurdling down the path toward launch.

Our art director, her very first day and week in the office, was the week that we did a lot of the key work in designing the website. Literally people were saying to each other, “Nice to meet you. What fonts were thinking about?”

So it’s been an incredible amount of work by all of our people.

Samir Husni: One of the things that struck me about the first issue is that it felt as an established magazine and not a newbie. Are you going to be able to maintain that?

Susan Glasser: Well, I certainly hope so. I think that this project is very much about power in politics and in that sense I think there should be an inexhaustible interest in it, not only from core Washington readers but from people around the country for whom these are subjects of great interest and internationally too. So I’m pretty bullish about the prospects.

I think also it’s a great complement to what Politico already does. It reaches not only its core audience, but also people who don’t need the 15 terrific updates about what’s happening in the negotiations in the middle of the government shutdown, for example. But they want to read one or two great pieces a day on that subject.

My hope is that we reach potentially millions of readers for whom, day in and day out, politics is an interest, but not necessarily a necessity and we can do it, while at the same time clearly serving the interests and the needs of our core Washington audience.

Samir Husni: Do you wish that you could have done anything differently with that first issue?

Susan Glasser: Sure, I wish I could have had twice as much time and space. It’s so humbling to have the chance to do something new and to work from the proverbial blank page. Because you immediately realize that could be a paralyzing opportunity. And we didn’t really have the luxury of doing the months and months long version of designing some ideal magazine.

So on one hand I’m sure we could have come up with something better, but on the other hand this was very much a learn-by-doing exercise. And I think the publishing we’re doing every day is fine.

And there are real benefits as well. Seeing what readers respond to, understanding a little about what works and what doesn’t. Being forced to make those millions of small decisions that come up when you actually sit down and go from your theoretical magazine to actually having to put it out. That’s when a lot of the real policy decisions get made, so I hope there was a benefit in just jumping in and getting started on this.

Samir Husni: What keeps you up at night?

Susan Glasser: Issues number two through the rest of my life. It’s an ambitious project to keep going at this pace and I want for it to keep getting better and better. So of course, I’m worried about how to do that.

Samir Husni: Thank you.

“We Believe in the Content… We Believe in What We’ve Got… It is Progressing Very Nicely.” Ian Scott and Marc Richards Talk About Bauer’s Newest Magazine Launches: Closer Weekly, Girls’ World and Celebrate with Women’s World. The Mr. Magazine™ Interview with Ian Scott, President and Publisher, Bauer Media Group and Marc Richards, Vice President, Group Publisher, Bauer Media Group

To say Bauer Media Group is different than any other magazine media group in the United States would be an understatement. Bauer is more of a bird that sings outside the flock of magazine publishers. However, it is a big bird and as of this year, Bauer’s Women’s World magazine has become the largest selling weekly on the nation’s newsstands.

Bauer believes in a newsstand where publishers make money rather than a ploy to meet rate base by using their products to get subscribers at a very discounted price.

The company that launched three new magazines in the last three months continues to swim against the current. In addition to Women’s World, In Touch and Life & Style weeklies, Bauer launched late in October Closer weekly and a few weeks earlier Celebrate with Women’s World and Girls’ World.

A new weekly, a monthly and a quarterly all launched in the last quarter of 2013? What gives? In order to find the answers to my questions and many others, I headed to Bauer’s offices in New York City and met with Ian Scott, president and publisher of Bauer Media Group and Marc Richards, vice president and group publisher.

As with any Mr. Magazine™ Interview, first the sound bites followed by the lightly edited transcript of the interview. Enjoy.

First the sound-bites:

On why Bauer is launching another weekly when everyone is saying print is something from the past:
Ian Scott: Our belief is that there is a future in magazines and we are committed to that future and to make sure that we do have an exciting future we have to continue to look at how we can evolve and bring new products to the market.

On the expectation of instant returns in regard to new magazine launches:
Ian Scott: The only thing I can think of is that maybe that’s what people are used to. People are used to instant gratification. We’re getting it everywhere. Maybe the expectation is that everything has to happen right away.

On Bauer’s business model:
Ian Scott: Once you make your choice you have to stick with it. I believe in what Martin Sorrell said a couple of years back — with long-term success you’ve got to bring revenue in from the consumer and the advertiser and that’s always been our goal and where Bauer has had the most success.

On the rumor of Closer replacing Life & Style:
Marc Richards: Life & Style still sells 271,000 copies at newsstand. That’s incredibly profitable. Without seeing everyone’s final numbers, I doubt that.

On Bauer launching three new titles in 2013 when others are pulling back on print:
Marc Richards: I don’t think we went out of our way to launch during a difficult time economically, but we didn’t shy away from it either because there’s an advantage to launching in that kind of economy. You share a voice. And when the sky is blue and the sun is out and everyone is launching five magazines at the same time it’s tough to stand out. So in hindsight it’s actually a pretty good time to launch though we didn’t launch for that reason.

On the goal of Closer magazine:
Marc Richards: The goal is to be profitable.

On the future of ink on paper:
Ian Scott: As long as there is the consumer out there that wants to relax with a magazine and enjoys that whole concept of holding something and kind of getting involved in that product, there will be magazines. We don’t mind whether you want an ink on paper format or you want a tablet format. Magazines can be consumed in any of those formats. As long as someone is buying the magazine, we’re completely fine with that.

On the biggest pleasant surprise with the launch of Closer:
Ian Scott: I think the way Hollywood has received the magazine. I think that it’s really been very well received to the point where people are really excited about being featured in the magazine and that’s great. I think that’s a really long-term part of the success of this magazine.

On what keeps Ian Scott up at night:
Ian Scott: I think for me it’s always about trying to think of the next thing. I mean you’re always trying to think about new products that you can come out with where the opportunities are so it’s always about what’s next.

And now the lightly edited transcript of Mr. Magazine’s™ interview with Ian Scott, President and Publisher of Bauer Media Group and Marc Richards, Vice President, Group Publisher

Samir Husni: My first question to you is what is Bauer thinking — are you out of your mind to launch another weekly in the marketplace when everyone is telling you print is something from the past?

Ian Scott: I think that’s a good question. I think that Bauer is the one that’s at the forefront of trying to embrace change and bring out new products. It isn’t just one product. It’s three products in this year with both Closer, Celebrate and Girls World. Our belief is that there is a future in magazines and we are committed to that future and to make sure that we do have an exciting future we have to continue to look at how we can evolve and we can bring new products to market. And that’s what we’re committed to not just here in the US, but the fact that we’ve done that with 90 new products in the last three years around the world. That’s the kind of commitment, I think, from a publishing company that actually believes in magazines and has continued to do so.

SH: But some folks have already written the obituaries after four issues of Closer weekly because of how many copies the first issue sold and they’ve neglected the fact that Bauer is now the second company in the United States that actually have four weekly consumer magazines.

IS: Which is great. I think that commitment is to continue to launch more products. We’re not for the short-term. Establishing a brand means that you must have a long-term view. We believe in the product that we’ve launched. We believe in the audience that we’re going after. And we are also evolving the brand. We’re delighted at the fact that it has a more celebrity feel. We’re getting a lot of positive feedback from Hollywood in the fact that celebrities are welcoming the magazine and its tone. And that is a development. You have to get products out there so we’re seeing that evolve as well. We don’t have any numbers yet on how well it’s selling exactly. We do know that in the small percentage of retailers that we can look at, which isn’t anything that we can project out yet, we’re seeing that week after week sales are improving. That’s what we want to look at because ultimately, it’s as I said, a long-term view and that’s what we’re doing with this magazine.

Marc Richards: And as far as a long-term view, just so we’re clear, we didn’t come in to this lightly. There was two years of focus testing throughout the country to figure out this idea and perfect this idea which we still believe in strongly after an issue or two — which we don’t even have final numbers back. And the idea was pretty simple for Closer specifically — this is the generation that built the category. I mean this generation was there when this category exploded and you had Us Weekly becoming a weekly, In Touch Life and Style launching and Star becoming a glossy. All those 25 year olds are the people who are reading Closer. And they’ve gotten older, they have families, they want to read about celebrities, it’s fun and it’s enjoyable, it’s the lifestyles of the rich and the famous and when they pick up the current generation of celebrity magazines they don’t know Miley Cyrus and Liam Hemsworth and they haven’t seen Twilight 10 times. So we’re just creating a magazine for the people who love this category, for the people that they still want to read about.

SH: But in this day and age when everyone expects instant returns, can you afford to launch a weekly that may take you four, five, 10 years, like in the case of Woman’s World or Sports Illustrated — and that was in the pre-digital age. Why do people want an instant success story?

MR: People being advertisers?

SH: Advertisers, media agencies, media reporters, you name it.

IS: The only thing I can think of is that maybe that’s what people are used to. People are used to instant gratification. We’re getting it everywhere. Maybe the expectation is that everything has to happen right away. But I think history has shown us… Woman’s World was 10 years and Sports Illustrated took a long time. This magazine is a great product and we believe in the content and we believe in what we’ve got and it is progressing very nicely.

SH: So my question to you; why is it other media companies in the States don’t see what Bauer is doing and duplicate? I mean why is it you’re the only major company that is newsstand driven, single copy driven?

MR: I think what happened was when people basically created their business model years ago, the American business model was more successful and there was more advertising money. And right now we’re in a situation where it’s more structural. We have a more structural problem than a cyclical problem. The money that went to Google, the $42.1 billion that went online, isn’t coming back when the recession ends.

So everyone has built a model based on an advertising environment that’s not going to come back. So we feel we have some good ideas and we feel the company is in a very healthy position right now to kind of go on the attack when everyone’s retrenching because our business model is most effective for the times.

A lot of what you’re reading pretty much everywhere is other publishing companies are saying that they acknowledge that the advertising is not going to be where it was, so our goal is to make more money off our reader again. And what we feel is you can have more expensive subscriptions when you add the tablet, which isn’t really working. And our thought is that once the genie is out of the bottle, once you tell a reader that a magazine is worth something, it’s always going to be worth such and such. So that model is not going to work. So the reason we feel that they’re not adapting our model is because at this point they can’t — that’s the model they chose and this is the model we chose.

IS: Once you make your choice you have to stick with it. I believe in what Martin Sorrell said a couple of years back — with long-term success you’ve got to bring revenue in from the consumer and the advertiser and that’s always been our goal and where Bauer has had the most success.

SH: The rumor mill says that now with Closer Bauer maybe planning on stopping Life & Style…

MR: Life & Style still sells 271,000 copies at newsstand. That’s incredibly profitable. Without seeing everyone’s final numbers, I doubt that.

IS: We’re committed to all the magazines that we have. And we’re committed to growing. It’s not about replacing; it’s about finding new consumers and launching more products. I think that’s how any vital, exciting business grows and we’re no different to anyone else looking to bring out more exciting and new products. And we’ll always be doing that.

SH: You chose 2013 to launch three new titles when others are pulling back on print and others are reducing their frequency. Why is that? Is it the Jersey water that makes you think differently than New York?

IS: I think that again there’s no saying, “Here is the perfect time.” The right time is when you have the products ready and that is really what it comes down to. We spend a lot of money and time investing and developing products and when we’re ready to launch and we feel comfortable that we’ve got the right thing, we do it. And I think that’s the way you have to operate. And you know we’re always developing new products and we have other products that we’re developing now. Again when we’re ready we’ll go.

MR: I don’t think we went out of our way to launch during a difficult time economically but we didn’t shy away from it either because there’s an advantage to launching in that kind of economy. You share a voice. And when the sky is blue and the sun is out and everyone is launching five magazines at the same time it’s tough to stand out. So in hindsight it’s actually a pretty good time to launch though we didn’t launch for that reason.

SH: But actually most of the successful magazines were launched in the worst of times. How long is the commitment? How long are you going to wait?

IS: I think that we can only say that the history of our company is that we have a long-term viewpoint. And one of the great things about being a privately owned business is that you can afford to do that. We’re not beholden to short-term, shareholder return.

MR: That’s a big difference between, from what you said earlier, about how we’re not as instantaneous. I know the media is and I know they love the horse race aspect of it. But I think companies that are beholden to private equity and bondholders and public markets, there’s definitely more of a gun to their head.

SH: What’s the goal. Where do you feel happy as a publisher?

MR: The goal is to be profitable.

SH: But regardless of the circulation?

IS: Any businesses goal is to be if you measure success by making money and that’s why we’re in business in the first place. We’re not always focused on size. We’re focused on a great product that we can make money with.

SH: You’ve cornered the market on the woman’s market and yet you have this magazine that feels out-of-place with the other titles. But just the idea that you keep on bringing new products to the market; why do you feel we’re not celebrating new products like we should like any other industry?

IS: I think it comes down to the fact that — which is a shame — I don’t think magazines get together and really sell the value of what we do. A lot of the times we’re still competing for market share of advertising so we’re kind of very focused on that. I think that as an industry magazines are great and I think that the relationship magazines have with the consumer and the reader is such a strong one. I would love everyone to celebrate the fact that people are bringing out new and exciting products because I think that’s what it’s all about but it’s a shame that we don’t.

SH: Yet on the other hand you have magazines that sell 1.2, 1.3 million every week and it’s ink on paper. What do you think is the future of ink on paper?

IS: As long as there is the consumer out there that wants to relax with a magazine and enjoys that whole concept of holding something and kind of getting involved in that product, there will be magazines. We don’t mind whether you want an ink on paper format or you want a tablet format. Magazines can be consumed in any of those formats. As long as someone is buying the magazine, we’re completely fine with that.

SH: What’s the biggest challenge that you’re facing as the publisher of a new weekly magazine?

MR: The biggest challenge is a lot of what we said earlier. The biggest challenge for Bauer is changing the conversation amongst the industry from size to responsiveness. And a magazine like Closer where you’re going to build an audience organically and you’re not just going to show up on Monday and on Tuesday, have a million rate base because you bought someone’s sub files. That doesn’t make sense to anyone.

And Bauer is a contrarian company in America. In Europe we’re not. In America we’re a contrarian company — we don’t do things the same way everyone else does. So everything we do is a learning process for everyone. People are receptive to the learning process but for every advertiser it’s a learning process. They don’t know innately why we do things the way we do things.

SH: What was the biggest pleasant surprise you had with the launch of Closer?

IS: I think the way Hollywood has received the magazine. I think that it’s really been very well received to the point where people are really excited about being featured in the magazine and that’s great. I think that’s a really long-term part of the success of this magazine.

MR: I think if the media community is any guide, and we put a survey in a bunch of the early issues trying to get some numbers back, and one thing we’re pretty positive about is that 55 percent of the people who read the second issue read the first. So we’re seeing that people who read the magazine like the magazine. A positive surprise I had just in my individual focus group of 3,000 advertisers just taking the issues out to them, taking them through the issues, that the response was very good. They liked the issue and most importantly to me where I feel a magazine succeeds and everyone agreed and felt that it was unique.

You probably know this better than anyone but with 10,000 magazines out there it’s very hard to be unique. It’s very hard to create a unique product. And we’re doing something that no one else is in the marketplace. The magazines that have had trouble succeeding are the magazines that meet this and meet that. The magazines that are truly unique; they have a chance.

SH: One final question for both of you… What keeps you up at night?

MR: From an industry perspective, it’s great to be the contrarian. I would like the magazine industry to speak with one voice more often. I feel like a lot of what our competitors are doing hurts us because it’s playing a bad hand. I feel you have a community that has built a business model that doesn’t work so they made everything free online because they thought there was a pot of gold at the end of the digital rainbow and that didn’t work. So now tablets are going to save the day.

I feel like we don’t get enough press because we don’t fit into the conversation that everyone is having, which is that tablets are going to save the day. I don’t know when that conversation is going to end or simmer down but it’s 2.4 percent of total circulation and I believe one-third of that is one magazine. So it hasn’t caught on nearly as quickly as everyone thought.

If people would get off that conversation and back on to what makes a successful magazine and still believe in magazines and celebrate launches or celebrate magazines that are around that are doing it right and that have a new section that’s really successful, I think the industry would put itself in a better position both on its own and as far as educating the ad community.

IS: I think for me it’s always about trying to think of the next thing. I mean you’re always trying to think about new products that you can come out with where the opportunities are. So it’s always about what’s next.

SH: Thank You.

Romancing Print… one Pitchfork at a time!

Pitching print, the online entity, Pitchfork, a successful daily Internet publication devoted to music criticism and commentary, music news, and artist interview, is excited about the tangible nature of their new ink on paper magazine/journal-type publication. President of Pitchfork, Chris Kaskie, believes the time has come for the music website to broaden its horizons. And instead of print being a step back into the dark ages, Kaskie thinks the time has come for a more “collectible” counterpart.

Not that he doesn’t believe in the permanence of digital, but more along the lines of celebrating long-form content and the creativeness of print design. His excitement about the new publication is contagious as he talks about cultivating music fans from all generations and allowing them to share in the same creative words of music he hears in his own head.

So sit back and enjoy Mr. Magazine’s™ interview with Chris Kaskie, President of Pitchfork as he talks about impacting music fans with the new “collectability” of a printed product.

But first the sound-bites:

On why Pitchfork is delving into print when other publications are going to a digital-only format: The way in which we’re going to go into print is a little bit different from people who are steering away from it have done. A lot of the places that are getting away from print have long since been print first, digital second businesses.

On whether print gets a ten out of ten rating when it comes to a publication’s sustainability: It’s a headier idea of what we would probably end up giving a 10.0, which is just the idea of celebrating music, celebrating long-form content, celebrating beautiful design and trying to do that ourselves and putting our own little impact on the world for fans who would hopefully be interested in it. It’s more about that than giving print a perfect score because everything has its flaws.

On the fact that humans love that sense of physical ownership: Well, the idea of ownership has obviously changed and I think the processes haven’t changed as much as the definition. Just like Pitchfork is a magazine and has been. If you read it on the internet, you’ll never be able to own it beyond your computer or your phone.

On whether or not the print publication is trying to reach the same audience as the digital version: To be totally honest, there’s not a strategy with regards to who we’re trying to attract with this other than music fans. Our creative team here works on ways to further the way in which people engage and how to read and contextualize the stuff that we put out there.

On what’s next for Pitchfork after this brand expansion: But in terms of specific growth ideas beyond that, now that we’ve accomplished a few things this year whether it is event-based or focusing on the international, there are a few things that we’ll continue to evolve, but at this moment I can’t think of anything that’s going to be like, “Hey, this is where we are next.”

On what keeps him up at night? So that’s what keeps me up at night, just how to keep that going. Because there are some seriously brilliant people working here who will continue to work to transform the way in which people think about Pitchfork and other media like Pitchfork in the long term. And to be leaders and innovators in that and continue to have respect for our audience is paramount.

And now the lightly edited transcript of Mr. Magazine’s™ interview with Chris Kaskie, President of Pitchfork.

Samir Husni: When magazines like Paste and Spin fold their print editions and they say they are going to be online, you’re doing just the opposite. What gives?

Chris Kaskie: The way in which we’re going to go into print is a little bit different from people who are steering away from it have done. A lot of the places that are getting away from print have long since been print first, digital second businesses. There’s a lot of, which we’ve even learned in our small example, overhead that comes with that. There are roadblocks and frustrations that come with getting something into print and putting it out there. It gets expensive and when you scale to the point of where they had probably scaled with their print circulation, it was probably financially untenable.

At the same time, we were working very hard to create and redefine what it means to be a magazine in a digital publication on the web. And as we continued to do that it was always taking cues from the history of print and being inspired by it. But recognizing that there’s disposableness just like there is with magazines, or newspapers; you get your monthly copy of a magazine and it’s just a normal, glossy thing and you read it and you toss it. It’s not something that you feel like you want to keep.

We stepped back and we said: we really don’t want to do a magazine, per se. It’s more like a hybrid between a journal and a book and a bit of a magazine, but something that’s worthy of collecting and putting on your bookshelf for a long time and referring to over the years and complementing what we’re doing everyday online and how fast we’re working. So creating modest goals and expectations of what we could do there from a business standpoint was obviously important and putting creativity in the quality of content and design first and also making sure we create sustainability with how we operate, that was really our goal. And we’re in the beneficial position of having a successful digital publication, so taking some of the cues from that and understanding what people would want and treating ourselves like the music fans that we are, that love music media and love it in all forms and what kind of things we might want to keep for ourselves in doing that.

To draw a very loose parallel to the way we created our music festivals, there are a lot of music festivals out there and we’ve been doing ours in Chicago for about ten years. Why get into music festivals? Well, it’s really so we could indulge ourselves and create a festival that we would want to go to and is a perfect example of our perspective and it’s pretty fun.

Samir Husni: One of the things that I’ve read is that you’re giving print a ten out of ten, referring to the most revered rating system you give to bands and music; are you really giving print ten out of ten?

Chris Kaskie: Well, instead of giving print per se a 10.0, I think it’s giving the idea of permanence, and there is permanence on the web, mind you, and it’s the same thing. All of our content would be available to you forever on the internet as long as the internet is still online. So the permanency is there, it’s just more in the way you’re engaging with it, thinking about it and contextualizing it. Just like people download MP3’s and subscribe to streaming services, music seems much like probably websites seem, like they’re moving very quickly, and you can go from one thing to the next very quickly, and of course it’s the way we all live our lives and we’re very happy to live our lives celebrating that, and if you’re a band, it’s the equivalent of putting it on vinyl and having someone buy your record and putting it on the record shelf. Then you would know you’re going to have that record forever, even though it’s on your iPod.

It’s a headier idea of what we would probably end up giving a 10.0, which is just the idea of celebrating music, celebrating long-form content, celebrating beautiful design and trying to do that ourselves and putting our own little impact on the world for fans who would hopefully be interested in it. It’s more about that than giving print a perfect score because everything has its flaws.

Samir Husni: But how about that sense of ownership? I’ve heard this so many times, that as human beings, we like to own physical things and having my music on my iPad or iTunes; it’s still not there, it’s not mine.

Chris Kaskie: Well, the idea of ownership has obviously changed and I think the processes haven’t changed as much as the definition.

Just like Pitchfork is a magazine and has been. If you read it on the internet, you’ll never be able to own it beyond your computer or your phone. You don’t own your MP3’s, you might have bought them, but you’re basically borrowing them and downloading them and they should exist as long as your device exists.

There’s something romantic about, not print per se, but the idea of having something that is tangible and that you can celebrate and enjoy. The festival is a good example too. You can’t take the festival home with you, but having that experience is something hard to replicate. It’s more of a celebration of all that we do and all that we want to do and taking the cues from how to create a business around it that makes sense and is sustainable and doesn’t overstep its bounds and how to choose the content that we publish and the way its presented, designed and the people that we get to work with.

It’s a very romantic idea of owning it and being able to contribute is really the goal versus saying that we have a publication that we’re releasing, which is great and it will continue to be good because we have that, but it serves a different purpose and all the purposes are equally valuable.

Samir Husni: So are you trying to reach the same audience that you have now on the web or on digital?

Chris Kaskie: To be totally honest, there’s not a strategy with regards to who we’re trying to attract with this other than music fans. Our creative team here works on ways to further the way in which people engage and how to read and contextualize the stuff that we put out there. If you’re a music fan and you like to buy records then this is the same thing.

It’ll take some education for someone that’s less attuned to that. My nieces who are sixteen and seventeen years old don’t really think about magazines like this. They don’t think about books or journals and they don’t think about the care that something like this is given and put together with. But that’s as much of a relevant audience for this as someone who’s older or is more attuned to buying records because they understand what this means.

It’s a fun balance because it can both satiate the desire for someone to have something to collect as well as provide inspiration for some kids who really like what this means and the idea of inheriting their Dad’s record collection.

It’s more of an ideal that’s being targeted than it is a specific group.

Samir Husni: As you expand the brand, now you’re everywhere; what’s next for Pitchfork?

Chris Kaskie: As we expand the brand, in 2013 we accomplished a lot we wanted to do. There was a lot for a long time that felt like something we wanted to do, but we didn’t need to do and that’s the way we’ve been appropriately able to grow our business presence.

It’s the constant goal of having what we do in the context of where people are experiencing music and where they want Pitchfork or where they’re listening to music and having Pitchfork be a part of the conversation, for lack of a better term, of what’s happening when someone’s gauging and listening to music or reading about music.

So if you’re on a streaming service, you have no clue, if you open up a digital streaming service or something, where to go. It’s just like going to a restaurant that has 55 pages on their menu; you have no idea where to start or end. And that’s where we fall in. So it’s being in places like that as much as it is having Pitchfork everywhere. And continue to be strategic.

But in terms of specific growth ideas beyond that, now that we’ve accomplished a few things this year whether it is event-based or focusing on the international, there are a few things that we’ll continue to evolve, but at this moment I can’t think of anything that’s going to be like, “Hey, this is where we are next.” We’ve just peppered the world with a whole lot of stuff and we’re doing it all by ourselves. We’ve got to make sure this all works.

Samir Husni: What keeps you up at night?

Chris Kaskie: What keeps me up at night? Beyond my children? What keeps me up at night is the fact that we are reaching a point which is inevitable where there is a lot that, at one point, the same way that I, and I hate to say run my family, but I think about the way my family works; you look at things and you say, “Do we want that? Do we need that or do we want that?” And most times it’s that you want it and don’t need it and just don’t worry about it. And you do what you need to do and you create a good life for yourself.

So that’s the goal of Pitchfork is to make those decisions the same way. A lot of stuff looks fun and may be great, but we don’t need to be doing that. But that stuff is converging now and being an independently owned and operated company that has our hands in different things and just keeping everyone inspired and everyone that works so hard for us to continue to be inspired and have our audience. And to think about ways to innovate, instead of thinking about things we want to do and may not need to do. And now it’s like what we need to do is actually what we want to do.

This year alone we did our third Pitchfork music festival in France, we did our ninth Pitchfork festival in Chicago, we launched a film publication, we launched applications, the Pitchfork Review, which we’re talking about now; so that’s a lot for us, giving that we have under 50 people working for us full time and limited resources.

People look at you and say, “Wow! Pitchfork is huge.” But we’re also like a little family that’s just trying to do our best.

So that’s what keeps me up at night, just how to keep that going. Because there are some seriously brilliant people working here who will continue to work to transform the way in which people think about Pitchfork and other media like Pitchfork in the long term. And to be leaders and innovators in that and continue to have respect for our audience is paramount.