Mr. Magazine

“We will not pull the plug on the print edition. It does too well with advertisers; it does too well with people who like print, and not just people of a certain age, but across a whole stretch. So, I can’t foresee it.” Bruce Kelley

“The number two media channel that the entire pharmaceutical industry spends in is print. Consumers are hungry for this information and they want to make great choices.” Lori Burgess

For 65 years and counting, Rodale’s Prevention magazine has been the leading authority on health and wellness for the nation. Started in 1950, the magazine has spanned the gamut with information on food, nutrition, workouts, beauty, and cooking. Its dedication to a heathier lifestyle and how to get you there is irrefutable.

The captains of today’s Prevention vessel, Lori Burgess, publisher and Bruce Kelley, editor-in-chief, are as enthusiastically committed to the magazine’s mission as the content on the pages themselves. It’s a perfect fit.

Recently, I was in New York with a group of my students, future industry leaders in the world of magazine media, and I had an opportunity to speak with Lori and Bruce about Prevention’s ability to revitalize and change with the seasons, much like a chameleon, without losing its original DNA, of which the magazine is known for.

Print plus digital, events, books, even a Rodale U where consumers can take E-courses on health and wellness dominated our conversation and proved that these two helmsmen weren’t afraid of innovation or the future at all.

I hope you enjoy this informative conversation between Mr. Magazine™ and two people who believe in the value of their brand and how it can benefit their audience with an unbridled passion that is definitely contagious. I see clean-eating in my future. Enjoy the Mr. Magazine™ interview with Lori Burgess, Publisher and Bruce Kelley, Editor-in-Chief, Prevention magazine.

But first, the sound-bites:

On the ‘new’ Prevention and plans for its future: (Bruce Kelley) Prevention is in the perfect place at the perfect time, that’s my view of it. I came on 15 months ago and it just strikes me that with the millennials being more interested in health than any other younger generation before them, with the Gen X the same, and the Boomers entering a stage where they have to care about their health; Prevention is in this perfect place where health dominates the Zeitgeist in ways that it probably hasn’t maybe in our lifetimes.

On whether after 65 years, Prevention is now the perfect brand: (Lori Burgess) The really interesting factor, to answer your question, is that we did take stock and dissected this brand a few years ago to really ascertain what tomorrow’s Prevention should be. And what we learned was that we didn’t want to change the target focus; we very much wanted it to be for somebody who is really committed to their health and wellness.

On translating the common sense of Prevention into its editorial content: (Bruce Kelley) The way we’re doing it is adopting a digital-first strategy and by that I mean; how do you know somebody is obsessed or really interested in a topic these days? You put up stories on the web and you see which ones they click.

On knowing both the print and digital audience, with a digital-first strategy, and how they are alike or different: (Bruce Kelley) I believe a digital-first strategy is an audience-first strategy, because the health audience in this world today is coming to health content through digital. If you added up all the impulses that people have to search out health content; I don’t have the actual numbers, but it would be an extraordinary, exponentially larger number coming at it through digital strands.

On the numbers of the rate of duplication between the print and digital audience: (Lori Burgess) Our numbers are low too; they’re not quite that low, but they’re very low. To be straight-up with you, the median age of the print is 59. It fluctuates every month digitally, but the new numbers for April just came out and the median age for our website was 33.

On how they’ve been able to monetize their digital and get consumers to pay for web content: (Lori Burgess) Yes, we’re having great success admittedly in both print and digital. I would say to you that we did return Prevention to its roots. Our DNA has always been about breakthrough content and information.

On a major stumbling block they’ve had to face: (Bruce Kelley) I haven’t really encountered a stumbling block. I hate to sound Pollyannaish. The things that people say should be stumbling blocks; I actually think are strengths, the size, for example. Eighty percent of our readers, the people who are drawn to this, and I guess our newsstand reader is in the low 40s on average; they tell us that they love the size.

On whether they can envision a day Prevention would not have a print component: (Bruce Kelley) We will not pull the plug on the print edition. It does too well with advertisers; it does too well with people who like print, and not just people of a certain age, but across a whole stretch. So, I can’t foresee it.

On the target audience they’re going for with today’s Prevention: (Bruce Kelley) It’s not an age, that’s for sure. I think it’s a spirit and the spirit is a great curiosity about things related to what they eat and how they live. It’s ambitious women who are active. And in some ways the conversation about health has changed a lot in really interesting ways.

On why (for the most part) Prevention’s web content is free: (Lori Burgess) Well, who’s to say we will forever. The consumer has been trained to get their content for free on the web, but that’s changing. We were ambitious enough to launch Rodale U, which are basically internet courses that are paid on the web, and is a brand new feature. It’s the same way; we became one of the few magazine brands that had the courage to create an event program and a two-day summit that we charge money for. People don’t come to our events for free. They pay to come.

On whether they think the magazine media industry will ever recover from the Welfare Information Society that’s been created: (Lori Burgess) I’m going to answer this one politically correct. I truly believe that what this company is founded on is something that is far deeper, in terms of importance in people’s lives. Health and wellness is going to become increasingly important as the Baby Boomer becomes older, as an example.

On Lori’s non-politically correct answer to the same question: (Lori Burgess) I think we shouldn’t have done this, but I also think back then, and I remember it; I don’t believe anyone knew what the Internet could be. I don’t think even Steve Jobs back then completely knew what the Internet could be.

On what keeps Lori up at night: (Lori Burgess) I think that we can’t move quickly enough. We have really spread our tentacles well beyond print and digital into the doctor’s offices points of care, into events; we have a lot of big ideas. We’re partnering with some really interesting companies, so I think we just can’t move fast enough. We are nimble, but there’s so much potential for this brand.

On what keeps Bruce up at night: (Bruce Kelley) What keeps me up is thinking of ways to make Prevention customers happy, such as helping them. That probably sounds so sappy. (Laughs)

And now the lightly edited transcript of the Mr. Magazine™ conversation with Lori Burgess, Publisher and Bruce Kelley, Editor-in-Chief, Prevention magazine…

Samir Husni: Prevention has reached the senior age of 65 years old, but now, after 65 years, it’s become younger and more vital than ever. Tell me about the new Prevention and your plans for its future.

Bruce Kelley: Prevention is in the perfect place at the perfect time, that’s my view of it. I came on 15 months ago and it just strikes me that with the millennials being more interested in health than any other younger generation before them, with the Gen X the same, and the Boomers entering a stage where they have to care about their health; Prevention is in this perfect place where health dominates the Zeitgeist in ways that it probably hasn’t maybe in our lifetimes.

Prevention is also produced through a company, Rodale, which has been a part of the health category forever. And I feel more than ever that the company is just so committed and its mission so wrapped up in helping people live a healthier lifestyle and doing it in a very fun way. Rodale is so committed to being a digital force; a force on any platform that people are using, that it was just a perfect place and time for Prevention to essentially say: we’re going to hit a new peak.

Samir Husni: Lately, for maybe the last five or six years, it would appear that Prevention has been trying to find its way. It went through different redesigns, reinventions, approaches to covers and different testing of covers. Do you think, keeping that same DNA, which started 65 years ago, that you have built the perfect Prevention now?

Lori Burgess: I echo to a degree something that Bruce said a moment ago and that is that in a way Prevention is 65 years young, because the time has now come for consumers to get much more serious about their health and wellness. There are so many different forces that are coming into play; the cost of healthcare is through the roof right now.

But the really interesting factor, to answer your question, is that we did take stock and dissected this brand a few years ago to really ascertain what tomorrow’s Prevention should be. And what we learned was that we didn’t want to change the target focus; we very much wanted it to be for somebody who is really committed to their health and wellness.

We did acknowledge that print has historically targeted and been embraced by consumers who are getting older. And we acknowledge with print that what happens to women when they get older is suddenly there’s a day, a moment in time, and it could be a condition which they have been diagnosed with or it could just be the fact that like me, suddenly they’re looking in the mirror and saying, wow, I’m getting older. Why does this hurt in the morning? Or why can’t I recover from going out and having a glass of wine as easily as I once did? So, when a woman experiences these physiological and psychological changes, she wants to get serious about it.

Now what’s different today than five or ten years ago is that the people who are coming into Prevention, and particularly in the print franchise, are Baby Boomers and we all know what they’re like. They’ve got the can-do attitude; they’ve been the people who have changed the world; they’re the people who invented the iPhone 6; all these kinds of people, who have conquered the world, and suddenly they’re waking up and saying, oh my goodness, I’m getting older. Well, I’m going to discover the fountain of youth. I’m not going to let getting older take away my possibilities or the new challenges that I want to face.

To really put closure on what you’re suggesting; we didn’t shift Prevention; we acknowledged with Prevention that we were dealing with a new group, a new mindset of consumers that were coming into our franchise and that our team needed to be a lot more exciting and relevant; a lot more cutting-edge and a lot more ahead of where everybody else was. And I think that’s what really differentiates us.

The sexy part of it is that the digital is attracting a younger audience, because guess what, our kids are living with us and they’re watching us workout like fiends and they’re watching us worry about our parents who might not be quite as healthy as we are. So, these young people are coming into the franchise saying I’m interested in getting healthier earlier, because I’m going to be even better than my parents are.

Samir Husni: You have the perfect name, an ounce of Prevention; you speak to the audience’s common sense; how can you translate that simple, yet ingrained name in the minds of anyone who thinks about health, into the editorial formula of Prevention?

Bruce Kelley: The way we’re doing it is adopting a digital-first strategy and by that I mean; how do you know somebody is obsessed or really interested in a topic these days? You put up stories on the web and you see which ones they click.

We came in, and just in the last year, started doing something that I think no other magazine is doing, where essentially all the editors are digital editors and they put up their beats; they put up great content on Prevention.com and then they watch closely what goes up on social, our social audience is just very engaged, and they watch what drives traffic. Then when we see what the hot topic is at that time and we throw more stories at that topic.

For instance, haircuts; who would have known haircuts that make you look ten years younger would be one of our hottest topics right now. That is informative to us as editors and we have a lot of good editors. They create that content and then they determine how they’re going to get that into the magazine in a way that a print reader will have that same visceral reaction to it.

So when you put the right content onsite and people click on it, the word Prevention starts to mean what that content is. It means feeling better, getting younger; one of our hottest clicks these days is ‘Eight Symptoms that Your Doctor isn’t Telling You About.’ And anybody would be interested in that; any demographic. They click; they learn great health concepts and then we can turn that into great content for the magazine.

Samir Husni: What’s the rate of duplication? I mean, if we’re talking about those two audiences, digital and the magazine, and you have this digital-first strategy instead of audience-first; how do you know that these are the same people?

Bruce Kelley: I believe a digital-first strategy is an audience-first strategy, because the health audience in this world today is coming to health content through digital. If you added up all the impulses that people have to search out health content; I don’t have the actual numbers, but it would be an extraordinary, exponentially larger number coming at it through digital strands.

Lori Burgess: And to go a step further; for us too, it’s coming through mobile, not just digital; 72% that are coming to us are mobile. Think about it; they’ve gone to the doctor; they have a thought and they want to get an instantaneous answer right then and there.

Samir Husni: I took my students to MIN Day recently and spent the whole day there and we listened to one speaker after the other, from digital agencies to you name it, talk about the death of the homepage; the death of the tablet; that everything is now mobile and that’s what drove me to write that it took us 500 years to talk about the death of print, but it only took us five years to talk about the death of the tablet and the homepage. (Laughs)

Bruce Kelley: (Laughs too)

Samir Husni: From all the studies that I’ve seen show that the rate of duplication between the digital audience and the print audience is between 6 to 10%. Do you have any numbers that are different from those?

Lori Burgess: Our numbers are low too; they’re not quite that low, but they’re very low. To be straight-up with you, the median age of the print is 59. It fluctuates every month digitally, but the new numbers for April just came out and the median age for our website was 33. A lot of that, the younger side, is due to social media, which tends to attract a younger audience, but it certainly validates that there are a lot of young consumers.

But when you look at all the data, the similarities, in terms of interests that exist between the Boomers and the Millennials; it’s just profound. They’re almost identical. It’s so cool.

Bruce Kelley: Imagine a strategy where every week on Prevention.com we are telling people about the magazine and a lot of them don’t even know about the magazine, but they’re interested enough that we get a lot of subscriptions through that, number one. We also have a great book business; we have Rodale U, which is our new product, and we tell them about that and they click on it if they’re interested in a digital E-course.

So, Prevention.com becomes the foundation of growth for Prevention, the brand. And the print and all these other elements become the places that we can send them and the places that they can then pick. They can actually as audiences decide which platform makes the most sense for them. Our growth on Prevention.com; we’re over 100% up year over year. In terms of social posts, we’re up over 500%. So the brand is actually blowing up online and that just has so many ways in which it can make the magazine more vibrant; it can allow us to build new products, which our audience can then choose to be a part of.

Our Transformation Challenge, which we just put up on Rodale U, in eight days, sold 10,000 copies. In 21 days a person can transform their life, lose weight, and feel great. And we had 10,000 people who paid $10 or more for a book to go along with it. And they’re on the Rodale U, literally hundreds of them, on threads talking about what they’re up to; what their diet strategies are; commenting on the course and how they’re using it, and just simply sharing.

Lori Burgess: It’s community. It’s like the biggest community out there.

Bruce Kelley: It’s community; it’s Rodale at its best, because that’s what Rodale is; it’s useful, fun ways of making your life better and healthier.

Samir Husni: So, tell me what’s your secret that you’ve been able to monetize digital in this Welfare Information Society that we created on the web? How are you getting people to pay for those things?

Lori Burgess: Yes, we’re having great success admittedly in both print and digital. I would say to you that we did return Prevention to its roots. Our DNA has always been about breakthrough content and information. We’ve led the nation’s conversation about proactive health and wellness. There are a lot of health media channels out there, from the WebMD’s to the health magazines, but no one has the same degree of unrivaled, authoritative perspective; the fact-checking that these editors go through to determine whether something is viable content and should be covered or not, is unprecedented in the industry.

We’re one of the last, I’d say, beacons of true, real journalism, so advertisers value that because, you know what, we’re not talking about try this shampoo or that shampoo. When we write about a particular story, whether it’s on the topic of mammograms or skin cancer, we have to be sure we’re getting it right because the information that we’re giving the consumer could be the difference of life and the choices that they’re making; it’s all about the sciences.

We sit in a very interesting position and as one advertiser said to me about a week ago, you really don’t have competition, because we sit in a really pretty spot.

Samir Husni: What has been the major stumbling block you’ve had to face?

Bruce Kelley: I haven’t really encountered a stumbling block. I hate to sound Pollyannaish. The things that people say should be stumbling blocks; I actually think are strengths, the size, for example. Eighty percent of our readers, the people who are drawn to this, and I guess our newsstand reader is in the low 40s on average; they tell us that they love the size. That’s what they’re attracted to. And that makes sense to me in today’s world. People are in a hurry, they want something quick; they want something mobile, like a tablet. The tablet may not be working as a magazine enterprise, but this magazine is working as one. (Laughs) People still like print. So, I get excited about the possibilities of getting the ‘next generation.’ I get excited because this is their tablet magazine.

And as Lori said, a perception that we’re not young, but the fact of the matter is if you look at the brand, if you look at how fast it’s growing; the 360 count that Mary Berner and the MPA are doing shows us up 25% year over year, which is better than any of our competitors, in terms of just impressions. Where is that coming from? It’s coming from all the mix of things that we offer.

Samir Husni: Can you ever envision Prevention without a print component? Will the Prevention brand survive if you pull the plug on the print edition?

Bruce Kelley: We will not pull the plug on the print edition. It does too well with advertisers; it does too well with people who like print, and not just people of a certain age, but across a whole stretch. So, I can’t foresee it. If things change much more drastically in the industry, then I can imagine it. This is one of the last print publications, but if it goes away, I totally see Prevention absolutely thriving, because look at it; it’s prevention and health content and people consume health content on digital and they do it in all the ways that Rodale is getting very sophisticated about doing it.

Lori Burgess: And just to echo one other thought, we charge for subscriptions now, it’s pretty bold; we charge 12 issues for $24. We’re one of the most expensive magazines in the industry. We may not be the biggest or the fanciest or the heaviest, but we have the confidence in the editorial product to command one of the highest subscription rates in the industry. And if consumers don’t want to pay for that, they can go to our website; much of our website is free and open access to them. But I also have to say we carry an abundant amount of advertising in the OTC (over the counter) and DTC (direct to consumer) categories. We’re the number one media vehicle in all of magazine media for over the counter remedies and for DTC we’re one of the biggest.

The number two media channel that the entire pharmaceutical industry spends in is print. Consumers are hungry for this information and they want to make great choices. And I think that’s the other thing when you’re talking about what makes Prevention so great; Bruce and his team give the whole perspective, so if you and I are having skincare problems, let’s just say; you might, based on all the information these guys give, make a whole different choice than I might choose. But the point is they treat us like we’re smart and they give us the information to make the right kinds of choices. This is one of America’s great media brands.

Samir Husni: For print, you said 59 was the median age. When you’re putting together the magazine, who’s your target audience; who’s the audience that you’re going after?

Bruce Kelley: It’s not an age, that’s for sure. I think it’s a spirit and the spirit is a great curiosity about things related to what they eat and how they live. It’s ambitious women who are active. And in some ways the conversation about health has changed a lot in really interesting ways.

When I was at Health Magazine in the 1990s when it was in San Francisco and it was a very interesting, cutting-edge magazine. Then it was about the science really trying to figure out what the healthy way of life was then, questions like, how do we deal with cholesterol; is the Mediterranean Diet the right one. Does human growth hormone work? There were a lot of mysteries out there.

Now, it’s less about the mysteries, although there are still some mysteries to report on, it’s more about the fact that we know how to live healthy, but how do we inspire ourselves to actually do it? How do we overcome the reality that it does take inspiration and motivation; it does take friendships; it does take, yes, knowledge, but it also takes authenticity and realism about what it’s really like to try and eat clean, for example. You walk into Whole Foods and you’re head begins to explode because there is so much to choose from.

So, we’re there, both as the one advising you what to eat and how to live, but we’re also that spirit; we’re the ones saying just do the best you can; you’ve got the right attitude, and a lot of it is about attitude. A lot of it is about how you perceive your journey that you’re actually getting better and smarter and more excited as you go.

Turning health into this positive lifestyle attitude is a big part of what Prevention is right now. And to me it’s the most exciting part, because motivation is everything in today’s world.

Samir Husni: When you have such a treasure as Prevention and it has such a good place in the marketplace, in terms of advertising and circulation; why did you make your content on the web free?

Lori Burgess: Well, who’s to say we will forever. The consumer has been trained to get their content for free on the web, but that’s changing. We were ambitious enough to launch Rodale U, which are basically internet courses that are paid on the web, and is a brand new feature. It’s the same way; we became one of the few magazine brands that had the courage to create an event program and a two-day summit that we charge money for. People don’t come to our events for free. They pay to come.

So, I think we are working to shift our model, it’s like a vessel on the seas; we were headed to Australia and we decided to shift gears a bit and head toward Alaska and it takes some change.

Bruce Kelley: And I think Rodale has been, maybe more than any other major media company, founded on the principle that if you give customers good information and good inspiration, they’ll pay for it. Hence, Rodale has a very big book business.

And something like an article that’s in our May issue, the cover story, Lose 10 Pounds and Feel Great; it has great content. They’ve paid for the content and they open it up and it inspires them to join the 21-day Transformation.

Now, to get the most out of the Transformation, they go to Rodale U and they get a Sizzle Reel that tells them this is everything they’re going to get out of the 21 days. And it shows people who have done it. And then at the end of that it says it’s going to cost them $9.95. And we really recommend that you buy the Sugar Smart Express book to get the most out of the plan. And so you have 10,000 people who are doing that and you have almost 1,000 who have bought the book as a part of the plan.

It’s good content and it’s the future, in that if it’s really strong content and it’s really deep, people get a valuable experience out of it and they will pay for it.

Samir Husni: If that’s the case and we know that people will pay for good information and good content; why do you think that as an industry when the Internet came, we created this Welfare Information Society? We actually put people on welfare information; here are the tables filled to capacity; come and get it. You were smart enough to create Rodale U, so you shifted the attention from Prevention.com, where you can get everything for free, to Rodale U where you have to pay for it. Do you think our industry will ever recover from the big, huge mistake of giving our content away for free? Cable never did it. And that’s what I don’t understand with our industry. When HBO first started in 1977, they said if you want cable, you pay me $9.99 and we’ll split it between the deliveries. But the internet; no, we told AT&T take all the money, just wire that home and we’ll provide them with all the information for free.

Lori Burgess: I’m going to answer this one politically correct. I truly believe that what this company is founded on is something that is far deeper, in terms of importance in people’s lives. Health and wellness is going to become increasingly important as the Baby Boomer becomes older, as an example. It’s going to have huge implications on our society, on the financial side and on most situations in this country and so, I would say to you if there is ever a company that is going to figure this out by being innovative and nimble enough to try the new ways of connecting and resonating with consumers and creating enough value that consumers are willing to put some skin in the game and pay for it, it is absolutely Rodale.

Scott Schulman and Maria Rodale have really charged the entire team to think from a very innovative perspective. They don’t want us thinking about the way things were; they want us thinking about the way things should be in the future. And I think as this particular brand becomes more ingrained in people’s lives at a time when it matters the most, it gives all of us permission to try new businesses and new experiences to present to the consumer that perhaps haven’t been realized yet.

This brand has that kind of commission. Some brands don’t; this brand and certainly this company have that.

Samir Husni: And your non-politically correct answer?

Lori Burgess: I think we shouldn’t have done this, but I also think back then, and I remember it; I don’t believe anyone knew what the Internet could be. I don’t think even Steve Jobs back then completely knew what the Internet could be.

So, shame on us? But don’t you remember when everything crashed in 2001; no one knew what tomorrow was going to be.

Bruce Kelley: I came most recently from a couple of years at ESPN, where I was peripherally involved in Insider, which was their premium product. That experience really influenced what my thoughts were when I came in to the brand and had my conversation with Scott Schulman about what Prevention could be, because that’s a model, there are others, but that’s a model where there’s a magazine involved, ESPN the magazine, there’s great content behind a paywall, Insider, and people gladly pay $40 a year to get access to that. And I view sports as one of those know-it-all obsessions; well, health is one of those know-it-all obsessions as well.

It’s also a content area where people have true needs and true ambitions that do require expertise and inspiration. So, I’m still going on the theory and so is Rodale as a whole, because we see it. We were just in a big management meeting where that was the message; we have great experiences and great value. Our number one job is to have relationships with the customers so they are like onboard with us. And if it has value to the consumer, they will pay for it.

Samir Husni: My typical last question; what keeps you up at night?

Lori Burgess: Two things keep me up at night. Actually, I sleep very well, so nothing keeps me up at night. (Laughs) No, seriously, I think that we can’t move quickly enough. We have really spread our tentacles well beyond print and digital into the doctor’s offices points of care, into events; we have a lot of big ideas. We’re partnering with some really interesting companies, so I think we just can’t move fast enough. We are nimble, but there’s so much potential for this brand.

And secondly I would say candidly, we are still selling media to young people. A lot of the people who buy media in the digital space and the magazine space are really young. They’re younger today than they’ve ever been. They’re responsible today for bigger budgets than ever. And their organizations are leaner as well. And they don’t have the time to get to know media and individual properties the way they once did. So, I think what keeps me up at night is how do I, as a marketer and a publisher, do an exceptional job in helping young people that really aren’t quite there yet, in terms of their health and wellness, and they’re working in organizations that have reprioritized things; how do I help them feel the passion, the love and the potential that this kind of brand can have in order to reach consumers. That keeps me up late a lot.

Bruce Kelley: What keeps me up is thinking of ways to make Prevention customers happy, such as helping them. That probably sounds so sappy. (Laughs)

(Everyone laughs)

Bruce Kelley: But it’s so true, because of what we just talked about, which is they need that value and experience that makes them say, this brand, whatever it is; whether it’s an issue of the magazine, or this series of articles online, whether it’s a course on Rodale U, or an app that we produce someday; this brand is valuable to them. That’s where the rubber meets the road. And I’ve felt it most recently when I spent time on the threads of the Transformation Challenge, where you have literally hundreds of women in the midst of trying to have 21 of the best days of their lives talking to each other. And occasionally saying I wish the course had discussed this or mostly just saying how great the course is. I’m five days into this and I feel great. I’ve cut sugar out of my life; I’m working out like I haven’t done in a long time; this is working. This is worth it.

But every once and a while you see that little lack of perfection and it makes you think, darn it; we need to be perfect in every way for that customer to feel like a ‘Rodale’ person. A Prevention person; someone you helped to transform their life. And they love you for it.

Samir Husni: Thank you.